Bransom, TX

a discussion place for our web site


You are not connected. Please login or register

BOTD 07-29-10 Is Ivor Impertinent or is he Right?-A Kat Production (13)

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Skater


Bransom Postmaster
Your 13-year-old son Ivor is very precocious, and you’ve begun to notice a tendency in him lately to be impertinent if not downright rude. Today he brings in a letter from his teacher, Mr. Morgan. Mr. Morgan writes that he requires his pupils to bring in a “current events” article from a newspaper every week. This week Ivor brought in an article on teacher incompetence. When Mr. Morgan admonished him that the article was NOT about a current event, Ivor said, “That’s because you’re one of the incompetent teachers!”

Ivor even taunts Mr. Morgan. My parents will never agree!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Mr. Morgan is requesting your permission to use corporal punishment on Ivor. Will you give your permission? If so, what do you recommend Mr. Morgan use—a slipper, a cane, or the paddle he calls the Red Hornet (a souvenir of a visit to Texas)? Will you discipline Ivor at home instead of—or perhaps in addition to—allowing Mr. Morgan to punish him?

The Red Hornet
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]



Last edited by Skater on Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Skater

AFinch


Sherrif
If the article was in the current news, I believe that makes it a "current event". While Ivor's response was rude, I suspect he might well be right in his assessment (though I won't tell him so).

I believe Mr. Morgan's insistence on corporal punishment administered by him has more to do with vengeance than justice or education, and I will NOT grant my permission to use it.

I will sit down and have a long talk with Ivor about the respect due to teachers, even ones who don't earn that respect. His reaction to that conversation will determine for me whether a lesson beyond a polite conversation needs to be taught.

At this point, I am not inclined to spank, slipper, paddle, OR cane Ivor. If there are recurrences, or if he is cheeky rather than contrite, I might rethink that.

Kier

Kat


Editor Extraordinaire
First of all, I think that Ivor has a personal agenda in his choice of articles. I think it's more than likely he chose the article on teacher incompetence to get at Mr. Morgan. Furthermore, the article sounds more like an op-ed piece rather than a news article. I don't know how specific the teacher was in defining his requirements; but I can say that once he challenged Ivor, Ivor's response was very inappropriate. Perhaps there was room for negotiation about the article's acceptability, but I won't support Ivor in such blatant disrespect. I can't see that Mr. Morgan did anything to deserve such a rude remark.

I'm going to have a serious talk with Ivor about his behavior and try to find out what is going on between Mr. Morgan and him. If, as I suspect, Ivor was showing off to embarrass his teacher without any real cause, I will sign the permission for him to receive corporal punishment. If there is more to the situation and I feel Mr. Morgan is in some way at fault, I will punish Ivor myself. I will also do whatever is necessary to address the problems with the school, trying to resolve any problems first with the teacher.

Since it's likely I'll be signing the permission, I'd recommend Ivor get six with the slipper. If I punish him at home, I'll give him a good old-fashioned spanking on his bare bottom.

Kat

tbfyb


Cowboy
I'm with AFinch on this one. Current Event/Op-Ed -- mox/nix --- Teacher incompetency is certainly current (and becoming more so) -- No permission to Mr. Morgan.

I will talk with Ivor about being rude as I find rude behavior unacceptable and, from the scenario, the incident with Mr. Morgan is not the only time that Young Master Ivor conduct might be seen as rude.

There is, of course, a fine line between humor (sarcasm) and being rude -- If Ivor continues to indulge in sarcasm, he's likely to find that other's won't find his sarcasm nearly as funny as Ivor had hoped or intended -- So there is risk in continuing down this path --- Ivor ought not to be surprised if he finds himself in a position similar to that shown in the picture (with his shorts removed)

Iconoclast


Trailboss
Ivor is certainly correct, I will not give Mr Morgan permission to use corporal punishment on my son. Where did Ivor get the report? Was it from an 1897 newspaper? I don't think so!

However, Ivor probably was exercising a personal agenda in his selection of articles. But why should he not? Was there a rule against it? Because Mr. Morgan mentioned no such rule, I must assume that none exists.

Nonetheless, I feel I should require my son to help Mr. Morgan prevent such misunderstandings in the future, since I am not willing to let him spank Ivor.

Therefore I will require Ivor to prepare 30 copies of Alex Jones' DVD "Fall of the Republic", and personally give a copy to every student in his class, as well as to Mr Morgan. Ivor and I will personally guarantee that this one DVD will inspire enough discussion of current events to fill the entire school year!

I hope Mr. Morgan will appreciate the assistance we have offered to him!

Iconoclast

Jack


Admin
In the first place, I'm kind of iffy on this not being a current event. If it's from a current newspaper, then Mr. Morgan needs to better explain his expectations. I can see his point, since this isn't really an event (unless it's based on something like a specific teacher's actions), but I'm not sure a young teen would notice the difference.

However that point turns out, there's certainly no excuse for the way Ivor addressed his teacher. He and I are going to have a discussion about subtlety and how gently making a point can be more satisfying and successful than using a sledgehammer. I have no doubt that Ivor knew his actions weren't acceptable, so I'm going to send the following letter okaying the CP, and suggest the paddle, since Ivor's already used to slippers and canes.

Dear Mr. Morgan,

I'm sorry about Ivor's outburst and have already addressed the issue with him. If you feel that corporal punishment is the best way to prove your competence, then you have my permission to use it.



When Ivor comes home, if Mr. Morgan didn't paddle him, then I will, since he and I have talked about his lack of respect before.

http://bransomtx.forumotion.net

Skater


Bransom Postmaster
I have advised Ivor, if you get stuck finding a current event you can talk about in class, just pick the story in the paper about last night's Rangers game. You watched it with your old man and you probably know as much about it as the writer.

On this issue I align with Kat on the opt ed instead of a real current event. His behavior towards that wonderful teacher, Mr. Morgan was very impertinent and rude.

I will be signing the permission slip and recommending 3 strokes of the cane in PT Kit!

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Skater

tbfyb


Cowboy
Skater: On this issue I align with Kat on the opt ed instead of a real current event.

So you think the discussion of teacher competency is not a current event, but an op-ed piece, but think a sporting event qualifies as a current event.

Why not clip out today's weather report from the newspaper, walk outside to see if the report given matches what you experience and report on that?

I suspect Mr. Morgan was looking for something like efforts to contain the Gulf Oil Spill, or yesterday's Federal Court ruling, by Judge Susan Bolton, that more or less says that Federal law trumps State law on issues such as immigration.

Skater


Bransom Postmaster
Bob,

I stand by my statement. Of course last nights Rangers game is a current event. It's very current. I agree your two stories are current events too. Of course the two goody goodies would have already brought those articles in! Ivor is a sporty not a goody goody!

I'm afraid it's still 3, in PT Kit. Very hard, very hard indeed!

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Skater

tbfyb


Cowboy
Skater,

I'm sure it would have been a more happy event had the Rangers defeated Oakland (of course that belief belongs on the op-ed page)

You're right though, all the goody goody kids would have already picked up on the two current events I offered.

The Rangers don't play every day --- but the newspapers probably report on the weather so Ivor can report on the weather when the Rangers aren't playing

Kat


Editor Extraordinaire
I don't know what criteria Mr. Morgan established for the current events articles, but I'm sure he did communicate his expectations to his pupils. Kids often fail to listen to (or read) instructions; in Ivor's case, I'd be willing to bet he deliberately disregarded the instructions. I've noticed more than one responder to this thread has operated under the assumption that Mr. Morgan did not make his expectations clear; in addition, more than one responder has implied that his own judgment of what constitutes a current events article supersedes the teacher's.

I can think of more than one explanation for why Ivor's article would have been unacceptable. For example, Mr. Morgan might have asked students for current events related to science. Regardless of the reason, he told Ivor his selection did not meet the standard, and Ivor's response was rude and disrespectful.

The lack of respect from Ivor's parents for Mr. Morgan astonishes me. People have implied that he deserved the comment, have downplayed the lack of respect involved, and have suggested the teacher is vindictive for wanting to punish the behavior.

I can't help but wonder how any of us would feel in Mr. Morgan's shoes. Would you be happy for a student to speak to you that way? I can promise that when I was teaching, I would not have put up with that sort of disrespect. While in real life, I wouldn't have addressed the problem with corporal punishment, I'd certainly have held the child accountable. I can also tell you that regardless of the opinion of the child's parents, I would not have accepted an article that did not meet my criteria.

Kat

Kai


Deputy
Skater wrote:I'm afraid it's still 3, in PT Kit. Very hard, very hard indeed!
How come you switched to strict mode?
No ice cream this time?

Emlyn Morgan


Trailboss
Whereas the subject of incompetent teachers in general is very suitable as a current affairs topic, I happen to know that Mr Morgan is a very competent teacher, so Ivor will know why the news article was not appropriate on this occasion because competent Mr Morgan will have made his criteria perfectly clear.

I think Ivor must have made his rude remark deliberately to get a whacking, bare bottom of course.

ivor


Marshall
Skater wrote:Bob,

I stand by my statement. Of course last nights Rangers game is a current event. It's very current. I agree your two stories are current events too. Of course the two goody goodies would have already brought those articles in! Ivor is a sporty not a goody goody!

I'm afraid it's still 3, in PT Kit. Very hard, very hard indeed!


Little Ivor presumes that refers not to the actual verdict but to the manner in which the sentence is to be delivered!

Having followed Andrew Wiggins recent thread on the Internet he also knows that there will be no way of dulling the pain so he is just going to have to 'grin and bare it!'

Secretly he will admit that he does deserved to be caned for being rude to Mr. Morgan and for not making his point in a respectful manner. He will accept punishment on that basis, but would contend that his choice of article did meet the specified criteria and would object to punishment on that basis.

His Dad has also told him that if he gets caned at school he can also look forward to an equal number when he gets home, so he is definitely going to learn to keep his big mouth shut in future.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Ivor+slipper

Pi Beta


Deputy
I'm surprised I'm being asked. As far as I'm concerned, the school has always had full corporal punishment rights.

My one reservation, having been asked, depends upon what I know about that teacher. If I think the punishment may be applied in anger rather than calmly and in sadness, then I will suggest that the punishment might best be given by the Headmaster.

Ivor can look as sad as he likes, but his wording, which sounds more like studied insolence than impertinence, fully justifies the use of a cane.

I can't help wondering whether he has deliberately set himself up for punishment or whether, perhaps, a dare is involved.

Jack


Admin
I think a lot of the response really depends on the boy. Is Ivor the type who was trying to make a joke and just had it backfire on him badly, or does he really feel that Mr. Morgan isn't a competent teacher.

I stand by my answer, because I feel that it's Mr. Morgan's place to solve the problem, but I don't feel like corporal punishment is the best answer (for him). I would apply CP if he doesn't, because this has become a recurring problem at home.

And Kat, your teachers might have all been very explicit in what they expected from a current events article, but Bobby and I had a problem similar to this, where his instructions were that the students had to bring in a 'current events article to discuss every day'. He just expected that all the kids would know exactly what he wanted.

http://bransomtx.forumotion.net

squarecutter


Sherrif
Clearly Ivor has been grossly impertinent and even if there is a grain of truth about the article being current news or even the competence of Mr Morgan he has no right to voice it in this way. I also have no problem with corporal punishment. But, I have a major worry about This man administering the punishment. He seems way too angry and I worry he would go too far. I will ask for a talk with this man and the headmaster/Principal and ask that he wield the "rod of correction" with a pre-agreed tarriff if he on behalf of the school sees fit. I would also take a cane to Ivor on his shorts if the school prefers and he will of course write a SINCERE apology to Mr Morgan.

Skater


Bransom Postmaster
Poor little Ivor gets the slipper?


_________________
Can you dig it?
http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Skater

Stone Man


Marshall
Skater wrote:Poor little Ivor gets the slipper?

I think so. Even if Mr. Morgan is not competent, Ivor's approach is not acceptable. Ivor's actions were rude, crude and socially unacceptable.

I'm willing to enter into the debate as it pertains to the current event, but Ivor is on his own concerning his actions.

MemoryMan


Sherrif
Over to you Mr Morgan and do it in front of those who witnessed the taunt.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=MemoryMan

CHRIS


Trailboss
There is absolutely no way that Mr Morgan is getting anywhere near this gorgeous, sweet, spankable little boy's lovely little round bottom!!!!

Not a chance!!!!!

If there is going to be any spanking done, little Ivor's pretty little bottom is MINE!!!!

For a start, if the article is genuinely from a current source, Mr Morgan has no grounds for rejecting it, other than his own predjudice.

If it's not, then I will deal with the matter in my own way.

Frankly, I rather admire the 'cojones' of the little guy in standing up to his teacher that way, and I would probably be having a wry chuckle about it.

Ivor may very well be right IMHO!

It would not be practical politics though, to encourage the little mite to 'kick against the pricks' too much however.

I will have a good talk to him on the subject of respect to be shown to teachers.

Outwardly at any rate.

Don't forget who marks your assignments kiddo!

I think in the circs, a good sound tickling and stingoors will get the message across not to be too cheeky in future.

I will warn him though,that if he continues to bait teachers, he is risking his bottom big time, and be sure that he understands that.

I hope he'd like a botty-rub after!!!!!! Twisted Evil

David M. Katz


Marshall
squarecutter wrote:Clearly Ivor has been grossly impertinent and even if there is a grain of truth about the article being current news or even the competence of Mr Morgan he has no right to voice it in this way. I also have no problem with corporal punishment. But, I have a major worry about This man administering the punishment. He seems way too angry and I worry he would go too far. I will ask for a talk with this man and the headmaster/Principal and ask that he wield the "rod of correction" with a pre-agreed tarriff if he on behalf of the school sees fit. I would also take a cane to Ivor on his shorts if the school prefers and he will of course write a SINCERE apology to Mr Morgan.


I align myself with Square on this on.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=David+M.+Katz

Zac


Wrangler
(I had to look up "op-ed")

I think this is a case a of 6 of one, half a dozen of the other, maybe 5,7, though Mr Morgan always has the advantage because he is a teacher.

Did Ivor have an agenda in choosing that article? Yes, obviously he does.

Is it about a current event? That is difficult to say without seeing the article itself. It might be a feature or editorial in which case it is not. However, it might be about the publication of a report by Ofsted (insert the name of the education inspectorate for your locality here), or the results of a survey or study about teacher quality so in which case it would have been a current event. Maybe not the sort of event Mr Morgan had in mind but still a current event. If it is about, say, a school being closed done or put into special measures because of poor standards there is no doubt about its validity.

Did Mr Morgan have his own agenda in rejecting Ivor's choice of article? Almost certainly, especially if it was hitting too close to the truth for comfort. Even if he didn't then the choice of article, valid or not, certainly makes it look like he did.

Was Ivor's reply impertinent, or rude? Impertinent, probably; rude, if you want it to be. It certainly was not subtle and rather impolitic. It was, of course, obviously the payload that Ivor had in mind as soon as he saw the article.

Was Ivor right? Subsequent events suggest he probably was. Even if Ivor was impertinent a better, and more competent, would have dealt with it better. Maybe just ignored it and carried on, or come back with a suitable riposte. If it was not a valid as an article on current events explaining why it wasn't, possibly prefacing his response with something "Not really, as this comes from the Letters page....", or "That's as maybe but I do know the difference between a news story and the cryptic crossword clues...." might have been better way to deal with it.

Am I going to give Mr Morgan permission to use corporal punishment on Ivor? No. Not just no but NO WAY IN H3LL! I don't trust him and suspect his motives. Even it if Ivor was impertinent enough to warrant it this is about getting back at Ivor not discipline. That he is even thinking about using the Red Hornet for this rings alarm bells. I will tell Mr Morgan that request needs to come from someone higher up the food chain than he before I consider it. I am wondering why this request came from him, rather than some one higher up in the school, in the first place.

If I do get that request to use  corporal punishment request from higher up the food chain, I am thinking of someone with 'headmaster' or synonym in their job title, I will probably allow it so long as Mr Morgan is not involved in the punishment.

Does Ivor get punished at home? If I have been waiting for a reason to punish him for this tendency then this is it. Otherwise he at least needs a warning about teacher-baiting especially if he had ended up being caned by the headmaster for it.



Slightly off topic but this is an opportunity to propagate this quotation:
ask an impertinent question, and you are on the way the to pertinent answer

---Jacob Bronowski,The Ascent of Man, final words of programme/chapter 4

(Of course in some situations that "pertinent answer" involves being told to take trousers and underpants down.)



Last edited by Zac on Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

Emlyn Morgan


Trailboss
Skater wrote: ... that wonderful teacher, Mr. Morgan ...

I'm with Skater!

David M. Katz


Marshall
I understand that Mr. Morgan is currently involved in a nasty divorce so I am sure his mind is elsewhere. Razz


_________________
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=David+M.+Katz

Sponsored content


View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 1]

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum