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BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble

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1 BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:10 pm

Jack


Admin
Your youngest son, Kenny, loves being in the kitchen. He started off helping you make stuffed French toast, and he's learned how to do a number of things. Over the past summer, he became sous chef to one of your older sons, who is the prime cook when he's home.

While Kenny can and does do many things, and you want to encourage that, you decided to forbid him from cooking for and by himself. The problem isn't that you don't trust him, but that he's only seven, and, even using his step stool, you feel he's not quite tall enough to use the stove top without risking burning himself or catching something on fire. You explained that to him, and set some very firm rules that included he could not use the top of the stove without supervision.

Kenny's ready to cook

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It's now the day after Thanksgiving. Your older sons were all sated on a combination of food and football, and they've slept in. You awoke at your normal time, forced yourself out of bed to check on everyone, then happily climbed back abed, curling up with your book, which didn't last long before you were napping again.

You wake up a bit later and go into the kitchen for some juice. When you walk in, Kenny is seated at the breakfast nook, eating his breakfast. He proudly greets you.



His breakfast

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As soon as you see it, you realize that he had to use the stove top. When you ask, he understands he's in trouble, but doesn't seem to know why, though he admits he made it himself. When you remind him of the rules, and how dangerous it could be, he points out that you were afraid of him using the burners, but he only had to use the grill to make the French toast.

Kenny's shirt didn't catch fire, should his bottom?

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2 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:17 pm

David M. Katz


Marshall
This is a case of classic messed up kid logic: "Nothing bad happened so I did nothing wrong."

I do not want to squelch his sense of independence but he could have been seriously hurt.

One more time we are going to discuss the rule and why it is there. Any future variance from the rule without specific permission will set his butt a burning.

Uh, Kenny, Where's mine?


_________________
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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3 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:40 pm

mahoover


Cowboy
This is one of those cases where it is hard to make a decision just on the information in the scenario. It all comes down to how the kitchen is laid out, and exactly what Kenny was told the rules are. If the grill he used is part of the cook top, then he is in trouble, and will have problems sitting. If it is a separate plug in appliance, then things are a little more iffy. In that case, it will come down to the wording of the rule about cooking. If it is no cooking without supervision, then once again Kenny pants come down. If when explaining the rule, I only used the cook top as an example of what couldn't be used, and didn't make it clear no powered appliance could be used, Kenny is safe.

Since I am betting the grill is part of the cook top, after this has been dealt with, I am going to think seriously about getting Kenny a separate grill appliance that plugs in. It sounds like Kenny is a responsible boy, and it should be safe for him to use a grill after a little training. The main things I would consider are: Is there someplace in the kitchen that he can plug it in and have at a good height for him? And is he responsible enough to always turn it off, unplug it then clean it after he uses it? I think I would get the grill for him, but not let him use it by himself for a while. Then I could watch and see if he uses it responsibly. If he is is responsible with it, we could have another talk about safety and relax the restriction so that he could use the grill when adults are around, but not directly supervising.

And in your household, it probably wouldn't hurt to be able to make more servings of French Toast at once :smile:

4 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:38 pm

AFinch


Sherrif
I admit it. I'm a pushover. And I like encouraging kids to be self-sufficient.

If the rule was no using the stovetop without supervision, he probably should be spanked. But I, like Katz, will instead go over the rules explicitly again. No spanking...this time.

Is that Nutella?

5 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:32 pm

Jkher


Trailboss
Well, no harm, no foul this time.

We'll have to explain that the grill is off limits too and why.

Hopefully he's left something for the rest of us.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Jkher

6 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:06 pm

John Boy


Sherrif
we have rules for a reason so sorry buddy finish your breakfast and lets get this over with.

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7 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:17 pm

Stone Man


Marshall
I'm with Katz right up to and including "Where's mine?"

I HAVE to hug him as we talk it out and he KNOWS he's not getting away without a few stingoors.

I'm going to try to re-emphasize the rules whenever we or he and his brother(s) cook with him.

If there ever is a next time, I'd rather his butt burn for a little while than to have something serious happen to him.

8 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:59 am

MemoryMan


Sherrif
In my kitchen the grill is not on the stove top but an integral part of the top oven. There is also a secondary grill in the combi microwave.

so...

Kenny , that looks delicious. Please could you make one for me too? sunny



Last edited by MemoryMan on Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:07 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : clarification)

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9 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:13 am

ivor


Marshall
US grills appear to operate differently to UK ones. Mine is part of the built in oven and is at eye level and totally separate to the burners, so this couldn't happen.

Kenny could have been a total pain this morning and come and woken people up who didn't want to be woken up, for which he wouldn't have been very popular. Instead he did his own thing and I don't feel I can punish him for that.

We'll go through the rules again with a couple of stingoors to emphaisse them. No need for the martinet today - thus far!

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10 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:57 am

Jack


Admin
ivor wrote:US grills appear to operate differently to UK ones. Mine is part of the built in oven and is at eye level and totally separate to the burners, so this couldn't happen.

A problem I didn't anticipate. The grill to which I refer is set between the burners, and actually uses the same system to heat them. However, the heating element is beneath the grill, so there's no exposed heat source. If he hadn't been carefully, Kenny could have burned himself, but he couldn't have set anything on fire without some real effort. However, the grill that Kenny used (we do have another, larger one, but it's put away when not in use) is definitely part of the stove top.

Maybe it's actually a problem with terminology - I just know what I was raised with my mom calling it.

Kind of like this, but with burners on both sides

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

(And yes, I've been thinking of replacing this for more burners, and using the separate grill (griddle?) all the time - it's just hard finding room for everything when you're cooking for this many people.

Back on topic - I'll let a few more people answer before I give my response. If anyone hasn't guessed - yes, this is based on a real life situation from last week.

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11 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:07 am

squarecutter


Sherrif
I think like a moth he is a bit too near the flame for my liking. I rather think he's splitting a few hairs. I think stingoers rather than a full spanking are in order. This is after all a safety issue and not just for young Kenny. Kenny seems pretty competent but 7 is just too small and also too inexperienced to deal with something if it went wrong

12 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:16 am

MemoryMan


Sherrif
The grills I referred to are inset in the roofs of the oven and the combi microwave and I would have no qualms about a sensible seven year old using the former.

However since we are in the USofA Kenny is due a couple of toasted buns Twisted Evil

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13 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:18 am

ivor


Marshall
Jack wrote:
ivor wrote:US grills appear to operate differently to UK ones. Mine is part of the built in oven and is at eye level and totally separate to the burners, so this couldn't happen.

A problem I didn't anticipate. The grill to which I refer is set between the burners, and actually uses the same system to heat them. However, the heating element is beneath the grill, so there's no exposed heat source. If he hadn't been carefully, Kenny could have burned himself, but he couldn't have set anything on fire without some real effort. However, the grill that Kenny used (we do have another, larger one, but it's put away when not in use) is definitely part of the stove top.

Maybe it's actually a problem with terminology - I just know what I was raised with my mom calling it.

Kind of like this, but with burners on both sides

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

(And yes, I've been thinking of replacing this for more burners, and using the separate grill (griddle?) all the time - it's just hard finding room for everything when you're cooking for this many people.

Back on topic - I'll let a few more people answer before I give my response. If anyone hasn't guessed - yes, this is based on a real life situation from last week.

It is another one of those 'two nations divided by a single language' situations.

To me a grill on a cooker is somewhere that produces heat from above and you cook the food in a pan or on a rack underneath that. We don't have the type of grill that your picture shows - probably because steak is not our staple diet! Laughing

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14 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:30 am

StevieWeeks


Trailboss
I also believe in children being self-reliant, but this is one of the areas where I draw the line. In my opinion (yes, I realise it is my personal opinion) the kitchen stove should be completely off limits for seven year old children unless they are under direct adult (i.e. at least eighteen years of age) supervision. I'm also not making any distinction between the stove top and the oven, either... both are off limits.

The risk of being seriously burned is just too great for me to be comfortable with it... and I would not want to give that amount of responsibility to a young teenager (note that I'm not saying teenagers cannot use the stove themselves, just that I don't want them supervising a small child using the stove).

I suppose part of this sensitivity goes back to my own childhood in which I knew a boy in the hospital close to my own age who had been badly burned... to this day I absolutely hate hearing children scream.

Kenny and I are going to have a serious discussion. If I've already given him a warning about using the stove before (Jack doesn't say), said discussion will end with a toasted bottom as well... otherwise he will be given one warning.

Stevie.

Addendum

Kier asked about Nutella... I don't know if that is actually Nutella, but here is a picture that explains in detail exactly how Nutella is made (warning... "e"content):

Spoiler:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]



Last edited by StevieWeeks on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:47 pm; edited 3 times in total

15 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:41 am

Kat


Editor Extraordinaire
I'm with Kier. I can understand the reason for the rule, but I also think we don't give kids credit for being the competent individuals they often are. Furthermore, any ambiguity about the limits needs to go in Kenny's favor. Nothing sucks more as a kid than finding yourself in trouble when you didn't realize you were doing something wrong.

Kat

16 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:25 pm

1strappedboy


Sherrif
I'm so with Kat on this!! Most of the kids are more able than we credit them. My real 'crisis' with this is that while he knows he 'can' he knows he 'shouldn't'.

Ken is getting spanked more for disobedience than anything else as we will discuss in the Right of Statement.

17 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:49 pm

Padraig


Trailboss
Maybe he should be punished, but how could I spank that little angel? Laughing
Seriously, I think we will go through the rules again and if he understands why he can't cook alone yet his butt is safe.

18 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:50 pm

Stone Man


Marshall
ivor wrote: No need for the martinet today - thus far!

Ivor!! Maybe one strand at a time on this little guy, but HONESTLY! Razz

Laughing Laughing Laughing

19 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:55 pm

ivor


Marshall
Stoney - it was a reference to him making French toast!!

As if I could possibly be that horrid.......

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20 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:23 pm

Jack


Admin
Kat wrote:I'm with Kier. I can understand the reason for the rule, but I also think we don't give kids credit for being the competent individuals they often are.

This seems like a good place to start, so I'll repeat that I have full confidence in Kenny knowing what to do. The trouble is that he's not tall enough, even with a stool to safely use the top of the stove (in my opinion). Probably by this time next year (if he keeps going at the same rate), I'll have no trouble with him using the front burners and the front of the grill. This isn't what he knows how to do, but what he's physically able to do safely. That is just my judgement, and maybe I'm being over protective, but I am the dad, and I don't want him to have to deal with what Stevie mentioned.

Ivor, I think what you're describing would be called a broiler over here.

As for what actually happened, keep in mind that I'd had a very full, busy week, with some personal problems occupying several week before that. When I realized what Kenny had done, I think I might have been a bit overwrought - not at what he'd done, but at trying to think of a way to explain to him why I didn't want him doing it. However, it seems that what he saw was a very upset Dad who was worried at what he'd done. I think that upset him more than a spanking would have.

Kenny did not get spanked, but he and I had a long talk, and he did have a good cry. He's pretty fair skinned, and has had a sun burn before. I'm not sure if he believes how much worse a burn from the stove would be, but he seems to have taken my word. For now, we're going with the status quo, and I'm planning to have a discussion with him before the Christmas Break, when he'll have a chance to do this kind of thing again. I might end up buying him a stand alone grill so he can make this for himself on occasion. We'll see how he does between then and now.

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21 Re: BOTD 11-26-2012: Cooking Up Trouble on Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:27 pm

Stone Man


Marshall
ivor wrote:Stoney - it was a reference to him making French toast!!

So that's how you'd beat the eggs? NOW I get it.

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