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BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards

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1 BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:02 pm

Jack


Admin
(Background Information: In Texas, State Law prohibits a person from having more than one, unrelated passenger under 21 during the first year he's driving).

It's Sunday - Football Day - and your sixteen year old son, Noah, announces that he's going to run to the store to pick up some snacks, and he's going to pick up Eli on the way back, to watch the game. You've just come back from a cub scout meeting with your younger sons, and have several other things going on, so you don't worry about it. Noah's been a licensed driver for several months, he has his allowance, and he knows the rules.

You don't think anything about it - at least not until Noah comes home, carrying a grocery bag, and chatting with three of his best friends.

Noah with his buddies, after football practice one day.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Denny, Blake, and Eli - all 15, and Noah - 16

As soon as Noah sees the look on your face, he realizes that he's screwed up. You ask him what happened, and he explains that Denny was already over at Eli's house, and that Blake called while he was at the store. He just agreed to bring them over without thinking about it.

You have allowed Noah to violate this law before on about three occasions - all three times when the football teams were at away games, and arrived back. On those occasions, he was allowed to take Denny and Eli home, but you'd talked to all three boys before hand, and they understood that it was an exception, that you were accepting responsibility (with their parents agreement), and there were strict rules (like no music) beyond the normal, which they all agreed to follow.

As soon as the conversation starts, Denny and Eli realize that they screwed up. Not only do you know that they know the law, since you've discussed it with them, but you also have permission to paddle both of them, which has been renewed in the last few months.

The real problem with the situation is that you don't actually have permission to paddle Blake, and he hasn't started driver's education, so you're not even sure he knows the law that they broke.

In a case like this, you normally allow Noah the choice of a paddling or losing his car keys for a period of time (or possibly some other restriction). You have no doubt that, if you imposed a restriction on Eli and Denny, their parents would enforce it. Before you can go any further along that that trail of though, Noah interrupts you.

"Please don't ground me, Dad."

"Yeah, please don't send us home," Eli adds, which is repeated by Denny.

Only Blake seems confused as to what's happening.

Are they sore, restricted, or will you write this off as another exception?

http://bransomtx.forumotion.net

2 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:03 pm

Jack


Admin
No, that picture looks nothing like any of the boys involved (though the boy on the right does look a little like Chuck Goodens).

Yes, this is based on a real incident, which actually happened today (thanks for helping me out on this guys).

No, don't look at the Spankorama for answers - if any update is called for, I'll do it tomorrow.

http://bransomtx.forumotion.net

3 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:14 pm

kalico


Sherrif
Jack wrote:
No, don't look at the Spankorama for answers - if any update is called for, I'll do it tomorrow.

lol!

Im gonna go with sore because this was not pre approved....I do understand the not thinking at the time but like you said this has happened before with pre approval, so I wouldnt want them to think they can get away with it.


hugs kal rendeer

4 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:08 pm

David M. Katz


Marshall
I just feel like a pass with a re explanation of the rule is needed. The fact I have allowed this in the past clouds it for me.


_________________
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=David+M.+Katz

5 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:13 pm

AFinch


Sherrif
I'm in DMK's camp. I think I'd feel differently about it if it were an issue of joyriding, but since I'd already agreed he could bring Eli home, and since Denny was at Eli's already, and they were driving directly from point A to point B, I'm pretty sure I'd have said yes if he'd asked.

We'll go over the rules again--not sure that a police officer would be as understanding as I am. But no paddling or grounding this time.

6 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:30 pm

1strappedboy


Sherrif
I find myself in the "K Klub" once again. I know this is strictly a violation but I understand how it came to happen and really can't get myself into too big a twist about it.

Rules review, absolute last warning and that's it.

7 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:35 pm

Stone Man


Marshall
I'm siding with Kal tonight. The other rule allowances have been planned and exceptions noted. I'd hate for Noah to get in the relaxed habit of doing this which is so very easy to do when you get into a relaxed mind set.

Nothing serious, but enough hard swats so that all three boys will, hopefully, remind each other of the rules and no licenses will be in jeopardy.

As for Blake, it will be up to him whether or not he admits to knowing the rule, and as I don't have spanking permission I may have to refer him to his parents. Does Blake have any older sibs with a license? If he does, he very likely knows the rules.


Twisted Evil Swats for all, got to keep the OLD arm limbered up. Twisted Evil

8 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:42 pm

talebearer


Cowboy
If they're willing, sure. Sore. And they look strong enough to take strong medicine.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Talebearer

9 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:51 pm

John Boy


Sherrif
I think a stern warning for the boys and maybe Noah gets a few warning shots across the bow to drive the reminder in. The others I say just talk and remind.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=John+Boy

10 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:38 am

squarecutter


Sherrif
Restriction I guess means sending the boys home and may be barring Noah from watching the game. I incline towards school type swats, with a paddle of a size befitting the high schoolers these lads are. A real short sharp shock. A pass for Blake if he genuinely didn't know(his parents will be told though) and he does know NOW. 3 swats for Noah and two for the other two.

I hope they got to see the game. They featured Dallas v Pittsburg here in the UK and it was a humdinger

11 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:39 am

ivor


Marshall
Blake is innocent in that he almost certaily didn't know what he was doing was an offence. He'll just be told why it was and warned about a future offence.

Eli & Denny have been through that previousy so they are going to get paddled.

Noah as the driver bears most responsibiliy. He can either thus have the same paddling as the others and lose the car for a week, or take the deluxe padding instead.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Ivor+slipper

12 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:40 am

Jack


Admin
Stone Man wrote:Does Blake have any older sibs with a license? If he does, he very likely knows the rules.

Blake is the oldest in his family, and he hasn't started driver's ed yet.

1strappedboy wrote:Rules review, absolute last warning and that's it.

Reminder: This isn't a house rule, but an actual law, though just a traffic law, and one that's not really very enforceable (after all, Ryan, who's a year older than Noah, looks 2 or 3 years younger, and Noah actually looks older than Troy, who's 20).


_________________
"In the end, it's just a story. But if you ask me, it's all true."
http://bransomtx.forumotion.net

13 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:59 am

CHRIS


Trailboss
David M. Katz wrote:I just feel like a pass with a re explanation of the rule is needed. The fact I have allowed this in the past clouds it for me.

Yes! I think I have blotted my copybook a little bit, by letting him break the rules in the past.

He may say, and quite legitimately, what's the difference this time?

I think consistency is needed with teenagers, but I know how hard that can be!

14 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:00 am

1strappedboy


Sherrif
squarecutter wrote:I hope they got to see the game. They featured Dallas v Pittsburg here in the UK and it was a humdinger

Wasn't it, Square? What a heartbreaker for us 'Stillers' fans! No

15 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:05 pm

Jack


Admin
As to what really happened in The House That Jack Built


Spoiler:
Ivor's answer is almost exactly what actually happened - if there was a prize, he'd definitely be the winner.

I did have a moment to think while Noah was explaining what happened, with Eli and Denny chiming in.

The simple truth is that I don't care for this law. I understand the reason for it, but I also feel it can cause a lot of problems. However, it's like I've said before - break the law if you feel you have to, but be prepared to accept the consequences.

With that decision made, the rest was pretty easy.

The one big change I made for the scenario is that Noah didn't ask not to be restricted. Because Eli and Denny had been specifically told the strict rules for both of them being in the car with Noah, and told that they weren't allowed to do it at other times, there was no question in my mind that they knew it, even if I hadn't seen their reaction when I came in. I told Noah that the two of them were getting paddled, and I felt it was more fair for him to get it as well. In the few occasions, since he got his keys, that I've offered the choice, he's not yet accepted losing the keys, and he didn't protest this time

I separated Blake from the rest of the group for a minute, and they all agreed it'd be okay for him to just go upstairs while I dealt with them. I was tempted to keep him there, both because 'ignorance of the law is no excuse' and because this was exactly the type of situation where I imagined getting the chance to bust him, because he has too high an opinion of himself, and too much concern over what others think, for him to back down. The truth is, Noah was the only one breaking the law. Eli and Denny had both broken a rule that had been explicitly explained to them, but Blake really hadn't done anything wrong.

I sent Blake upstairs, and took the other three to my office. I had all three remove their pants, while I gave them a brief reminded of exactly why they were in trouble. I then offered Denny and Eli the choice of three on boxers or two bare. They both answered without hesitation.

"Two." "Three."

"Two? Eli asked, looking at the other boy.

Denny nodded.

Eli looked back at me.

"Two."

I told them they could each chose their own, but I think Eli knows Denny has a lot more experience than he does, so he stuck with two.

I had Noah fetch a chair from the dining room, and had the other two boys remove their boxers.

I had Denny get into position first, and had Eli get down next to him. I used the medium Lexan and started with Denny. They were pretty standard swings - about 3 foot with arm, no body. Denny has a lot more experience with this than Eli, so I might have put a little pepper on his swats.

After two, I let them stand. Denny was trying to be nonchalant, but he stood up a lot more slowly than he'd bent down, and he took the time for a thorough rub before putting his boxers on. Eli wasn't quite as nonchalant, and he'd yelped at the second swat, but his eyes were only slightly damp, and he barely sniffed.

Before he got dressed, Denny stopped to give an apology and get a hug, and Eli did the same.

Noah is the one who'd broken the law. I would never switch for something like this, but he did get six swats, pretty much the same as Eli had gotten, but six is a lot more than two. He was barely making any noise, but he was definitely sobbing before I finished, and there were some tears flowing.

Actually, he took it exactly like I'd hoped. I wanted his friends to know that he'd had a serious punishment, but I also wanted them to see how well he took it. I hadn't told him how many I was giving, so I could have stopped one earlier if I had to, but six was what I'd planned on, based on his age (I felt four wasn't enough, but eight - half his age - was too many).

Noah stayed down for a moment. Then he got up and got his boxers on first, but he did come and apologize to me and gave me a hug. Then he apologized to the other two boys for 'because he should have known not to let them do it', and he gave each of them a hug.

They went to my bathroom to clean up, then went upstairs, and seemed to enjoy their game, and the snacks that started it all.

http://bransomtx.forumotion.net

16 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:10 pm

MemoryMan


Sherrif
I've relaxed strict observance of the law before and likely would have done so again. All Noah had to do was call and ask me. He didn't.

Did his friends know? Possibly, possibly not.

I'll chew them all out and as far as his friends know that will be the end of the matter.

But Noah the driver, is my son and he was the (ir)responsible party. His butt will be toast, but it can wait until after the game when his friends have departed.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=MemoryMan

17 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:44 pm

db105


Trailboss
Hmmm, these keep being difficult. Realistically, I think that for a 16 year old I should probably be trying to use other non-physical punishments.

In the context of BOTD-land, I support MemoryMan's opinion.

I'll tell them off and warn the other boys that I will punish them if this happens again (in Blake's case, the punishment would be notifying his parents, while the others would get the paddle). Afterwards, in private, I'll talk with my son and explain that, as the driver, he is responsible for following the traffic rules. I'll explain that breaking them on a particular occasion for a pressing reason does not mean he can break them anytime. Then I'll let him choose between a week without car or a (not very hard) paddling.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Danny

18 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:06 pm

Jack


Admin
Nice to see you around again, DB, and nice new avatar.

While you're right about 16 and non-physical punishments, I've been offering my older boys the choice lately, and physical punishments seem to be effective. As Kat has said, you just have to use something that is effective, not what's most effective.

http://bransomtx.forumotion.net

19 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:22 pm

db105


Trailboss
Jack wrote:Nice to see you around again, DB, and nice new avatar.

Thanks, it's good to see you guys too. I was missing you, so I decided to visit.

I was reading some Detective Conan manga lately, and it was time for an avatar change, so...

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Danny

20 Re: BOTD 12-17-12: Driving Hazards on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:11 pm

Jkher


Trailboss
Cars, temptation, trouble... It's inevitable.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Jkher

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