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BOTD BONUS!! "A Case Of The Stubborns" DMK Bonus

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David M. Katz


Marshall
A CASE OF THE STUBBORNS*

*Special thanks to Leti for inspiration for the title.

A DMK Bonus Production


Your twelve year old son, Nicky, was quickly outgrowing his clothes. With the seasons changing, you and your spouse took him shopping and he got new clothes. Nicky was told to reserve the new outfits for school, church, and other "nice" situations. His older things would still work for playing outside and casual situations.

Nicky selected his favorite of his new outfits to wear to church this morning. When you all returned home, Nicky was eager to get outside with his friends. Your spouse reminded him to change his clothes. You and your spouse went on about your normal activities but your spouse happened to look outside and saw Nicky out playing in his new outfit. Nicky was called in and reminded he was told to change and sent off to his room to change his clothes. He told your spouse then that he liked the outfit and did not want to change but he sulked on off to his room to supposedly change.

You are planning a cookout and step outside to prepare your grill and you notice Nicky is outside. He is STILL wearing the new shorts as all he did was take the new shirt off.


NICKY - 12
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You call him to you and ask what he was told to do. He repeats that he was told to change his clothes. You ask why he has not obeyed. He responds that he told your spouse that he didn't want to change. You give him a final warning and send him in to change. Nicky looks at you defiantly and crosses his arms and yells at you, "No! I want to wear this."

What happens next?


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AFinch


Sherrif
They're his clothes.

I think, especially with the approach of adolescence, it's best to pick one's battles.

I'm going to tell Nicky that if he ruins his new outfit, I'm not replacing it. Do kids really wear t-shirts and shorts to church nowadays?

squarecutter


Sherrif
'Right young man, march upstairs and get those pants off right now or I will do it for you. If that happens the underwear will be coming down too. You know what happens then. you'd better decide if thats what you want to happen or not.' A couple of whacks on the seat to see him on his way.

David M. Katz


Marshall
AFinch wrote: Do kids really wear t-shirts and shorts to church nowadays?

I suppose it depends on the church and the area of the country and the parents. Here it is VERY COMMON especially in the non denominational mega churches. In fact, if a kid showed up in more than shorts and a nice shirt at our church, he would be considered over dressed by his peers. The outfit in question was a pair of patterned shorts in loud color block colors and a bright yellow polo.


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John Boy


Sherrif
David M. Katz wrote:
AFinch wrote: Do kids really wear t-shirts and shorts to church nowadays?

I suppose it depends on the church and the area of the country and the parents. Here it is VERY COMMON especially in the non denominational mega churches. In fact, if a kid showed up in more than shorts and a nice shirt at our church, he would be considered over dressed by his peers. The outfit in question was a pair of patterned shorts in loud color block colors and a bright yellow polo.

katz is right at my Church there isn't really "dress code." Our Pastor wears Jeans during his sermons. I have seen soccer uniforms, Tshirts. Only thing I haven't seen unlike at Wal-mart is Pajamas. LOL As to the situation, the defiant no just earned him a reminder who is in charge. Hopefully a few smacks will get his attention.

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Guest


Guest
I would sit Nicky down and warn him about the epidemic of roving bands of shirt-eating zombies. After that I'm sure he would agree that changing his clothes is a good idea.

1strappedboy


Sherrif
While it seems a small battle/issue in and of itself I'm curious as to why he's being so obstinate about this.

I think I may probe a bit of the why and if it's just 12 year old mulishness the undies are coming down too! Twisted Evil

Padraig


Trailboss
Fine, young man, you can wear them. In your room. Upstairs. Now.

Stone Man


Marshall
Boy Smack wrote:I would sit Nicky down and warn him about the epidemic of roving bands of shirt-eating zombies. After that I'm sure he would agree that changing his clothes is a good idea.

HA!


1strappedboy wrote: While it seems a small battle/issue in and of itself I'm curious as to why he's being so obstinate about this.

I think I may probe a bit of the why and if it's just 12 year old mulishness the undies are coming down too! Twisted Evil

I'm going after the strop!


Padraig wrote: Fine, young man, you can wear them. In your room. Upstairs. Now.

A nice, well mannered approach.


As for me, I'd have been smiling as I did this, but I'd have relieved my boy of all his clothes the first time I saw he had not already done what was asked of him and followed it up with stingoors or even real swats. Then we could figure out what and if he would be wearing anything in the near future.

I grew up at a time where we had one set of "good" clothes and numerous sets of play/work clothes. If I hadn't been told to change, I knew I'd best do it anyway or my butt and legs would pay the price of my foolishness.

They may be HIS clothes, but I had to pay for them and I need them to be in good shape into the near future.

1strappedboy


Sherrif
Yup!! What you just said Cap!!

Good clothes and play clothes were separate and we darned well knew the difference!

If we'd have messed up our good clothes, mum would have been certain that our rear paid the price! Dad (Alex) would have shredded our butts for mum and then we could change out.

ivor


Marshall
AFinch wrote:They're his clothes.

I think, especially with the approach of adolescence, it's best to pick one's battles.

I'm going to tell Nicky that if he ruins his new outfit, I'm not replacing it. Do kids really wear t-shirts and shorts to church nowadays?

But then would you want him going anywhere that he needed to be 'decently' dressed in raggy or damaged clothing?

I bet you wouldn't so you'd end up buying some more clothes.

For me this is a case of whoever pays the piper calls the tune, so as I bought them for 'best' that is what they will be - or else young man!

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Jack


Admin
Okay, seriously - What?

Yes, the kid is disobeying, but why am I making a big deal about a pair of shorts? (And why did I let a 12-year old kid wear shorts to church?).

It's just coming off winter, Nick is outgrowing his clothes, and he has something new and comfortable to wear, that fits, and I'm surprised he wants to wear it? It's not like he's going outside in his new 3-piece.

The only way I can understand this scenario is if we're having severe money problems, in which case I need to explain to Nick why we need to take very good care with his clothes, so we can make them last (unless his 'play' is in some way very destructive to clothing).

With that caveat, I'm going to decide I need to pick my battles. He and I do need to sit down and have a talk about minding and the correct way to deal with it when he disagrees with me, but I think this is a case where a spanking will hurt my relationship with him more than it will his bottom.

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David M. Katz


Marshall
This was NEVER about the clothes.

Yes, this was just a ten buck pair of shorts but it was still hoped they would remain in a decent condition, for a few weeks anyway. He has plenty of old shorts and baggy basketball shorts that would have provided the same, if not better, comfort level.

This was and is about a problem that my son is allowing to surface all too often. A problem that we have been working with him about.

If he disagrees with a rule or direction, his current tendency is to ignore it and do whatever he pleases. We have told him that if he disagrees with something to talk to us rationally about it and negotiate a possible change. Right or wrong, agree or disagree, Anne had her reasons for wanting him to change his clothes. Although it may have been a request rooted in being old fashioned or just one of those "Mom" things, it wasn't unreasonable given he has tons of older (and probably) more comfortable clothes to wear. It also wouldn't have killed the boy to take 2 minutes and change his clothes. He did not want to make time to change and, yes, he liked the outfit. So his response was direct disobedience and defiance. It was a symptom of a growing concern. Today: change your clothes; tomorrow: don't steal? He is a good kid but he is 12 and he is starting to painfully assert his independence and the fact that "he knows all" - rules be damned.

Another issue we have been working with is his tendency to be very rude and harsh and terse when asserting his rights or ways. I do want him to stand up for himself and to be able to speak and be heard BUT I don't want him an arrogant and rude and disagreeable person. We have been helping him find the balance. He had already crossed the line with his response to his mother but she was willing to let it go. I don't care if he disagreed with me. I don't care if he wanted to state his case. All of that is fine. However he crossed the line with his tone and demeanor. He went to the Land of Rudeness and Disrespect.

As soon as he snapped at me, he knew he had gone too far. I just gave him "the look" and told him to get in to his room. I gave a short pause before I went in. I walked in and he immediately apologized. Yes, it was truly sincere but it was also an attempt to save his back side. After he apologized he just looked at me and said, "Whippin'?" We talked about the issue for a few minutes. We agreed on six with the spatula. The spanking was quick and very wimpy. I think I went too light. He never cried but he did dance and rub a bit after I let him up. I left him alone as is our practice. In short time he was out of his room and wearing old shorts and got his hugs and he apologized again. The matter was never discussed again and he went through the rest of the day a very happy boy.


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Stone Man


Marshall
Jack wrote:

(And why did I let a 12-year old kid wear shorts to church?).


When it comes to kids/boys, long pants and a collared shirt, or shorts and a collared shirt in warmer weather (or for the adventuresome), are pretty much the norm here so Nicky wearing such attire would be common.


My childhood has a lot to do with my POV. The request/reminder for Nicky to change out is not unreasonable to me as I heard the same said to me every day but Saturday, which was almost always a work/play day with no hint of dress clothes in sight.

Money was not overly plentiful and ruining "good clothes" by playing in them was most assuredly a spanking offense. Running upstairs to change out after school or church became an automatic response. If we should forget, one warning/reminder would be given and my sister and I were bright enough to take the warning and hope we hadn't already damaged our good outfits.

When I ran out of my "old clothes" or I out grew them, Mom and I would search out the handmedowns form my cousins. Fortunately two of them were older boys than I.

Nicky knew he was to change out, he had more than enough warnings/reminders, he disobeyed which is my big issue and his bottom now will be roasted.

squarecutter


Sherrif
I think the point was that most of us certainly had more play clothes than formal which also tended to be more expensive as well. So we changed out of uniform when we got home from school (not a problem) and collared shirts and good trousers were not for the garden.

kalico


Sherrif
I guess Im with stone man and Dimitri....

I grew up also having church/good clothes as in NON play clothes.

For me I DO STILL make any of the kids comming to church with me dress up.

poor Nate, he is at the stage of teen and seeing where he can push.....


hugs kal

Jack


Admin
kalico wrote:I grew up also having church/good clothes as in NON play clothes.

For me I DO STILL make any of the kids comming to church with me dress up.

I'm not going to go into the reasons why because it would be going outside the bounds of this entire forum, much less the specific BOTD (though I'll be happy to discuss it with anyone who PMs me), but my kids dress nicely when we attend something formal, especially Church. I don't mean they have to wear three pieces, or even blazers, but they do wear nice slacks and collared shirts. Of course, some of my adopted little brothers are more closer-horse than others, and so like tie's, blazers, etc.

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