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BOTD 20 May 2013 - Ticket to Trouble

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1 BOTD 20 May 2013 - Ticket to Trouble on Sun May 19, 2013 7:01 pm

Jack


Admin
Your son, Barry, recently turned 16 and passed his driver's license test. Like all of your boys who are old enough to drive, Barry is occasionally required to run errands and help his younger brothers get to school/functions.

One morning recently, Barry received a speeding ticket between dropping off one of his brother's at the private school the younger boy attends and reaching the campus where he attends high school.


Barry thinking of all the things NOT to say to a police officer (though you might like to).[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Barry comes home and tells you about the ticket. The two of you double check the price, and you work out a loan agreement from his upcoming allowances, with just enough interest added for him to think about starting the saving or stopping the speeding.

As your deal is concluding, one of Barry's older brothers overhears and starts to complain. After all, when he'd received a ticket, he'd not only had to pay it, he'd gotten paddled as well.

It is true that you sometimes add CP in excess of the ticket, but that's only in unusual circumstances.

That begs the question, how would you handle Barry in each of these situations?

1) You'd reminded him several times that he'd need to leave early to be on time after dropping his little brother off, but he left at practically the normal time, so you assume he was speeding to make it to his own class on time.

2) He was speeding to be on time, because there'd been a fender bender in front of his brother's school, and he was held up for almost ten minutes while they exchanged information.

3) He was late because he stopped at the convenience store for an energy drink.

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2 Re: BOTD 20 May 2013 - Ticket to Trouble on Sun May 19, 2013 7:10 pm

David M. Katz


Marshall
#2 gave me a bit of pause but, regardless, speeding is a safety issue.

In all cases, Barry would lose his driving privileges for a week except for necessary driving to school and for errands. For #2, I would consider only doing 3 days. At this age, I think no driving would have a bigger impression than the paddle.


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3 Re: BOTD 20 May 2013 - Ticket to Trouble on Sun May 19, 2013 7:21 pm

AFinch


Sherrif
I think it depends on how much he was speeding, almost as much as why.

When I was in high school, a good friend's dad bought him a red Porsche. If he drove 26 mph in a 25 mph zone, he was stopped and ticketed, and every judge who looked at the make and model of vehicle then informed him that "26 is speeding" before suspending his license. After six months, he begged his dad to sell the Porsche and get him something that didn't result in constant harassment by those sworn "to protect and to serve".

Assuming he wasn't going 80 in a school zone, for #1 I'd remind him that's why I suggested he leave earlier for school, and suggest once again that he do so. For #2, he'd get a pass from me. This is not (yet) Switzerland, where a nuclear holocaust isn't even a valid reason for tardiness. There is no excuse, however, for #3. If that's the reason for his lateness, he can choose between losing his keys for a few days or taking a couple of swats.

4 Re: BOTD 20 May 2013 - Ticket to Trouble on Sun May 19, 2013 7:58 pm

Stone Man


Marshall
# 1 There was no excuse for. (leave me alone grammar police) It was even suggested to him that he leave early.

# 2 I'm reading it like he was a witness to it rather than being part of the accident. The police brotherhood ought to get together and give Barry a pass on the speeding.

# 3 It was his choice to stop and he needed to have kept better track of his time.

I have questions, like Kier, as to where and how much over the speeding occurred... school zone? busy pedestrian area? five miles over? 20 miles over in a 25 zone?

# 1 - He can lose his driving privileges for a few days and get three whacks.

# 3 - If it was high speed and/or dangerous area to be speeding he will lose his driving privileges for six days and get six whacks.

# 2 - Assuming his speed was close to the posted one, Barry gets a pass on the whacks and I may follow up with the officers' boss and suggest they find a way to help out those who help them.

5 Re: BOTD 20 May 2013 - Ticket to Trouble on Sun May 19, 2013 9:22 pm

Kittykat


Deputy
This is a tough one, because it's hard to be fair here without knowing the circumstances as to why he's late. I think I'll wait until we get the whole story. As to the older brother's comment, well sometimes life isn't fair.

6 Re: BOTD 20 May 2013 - Ticket to Trouble on Sun May 19, 2013 10:59 pm

John Boy


Sherrif
First scenario Probably a Paddling

Second scenario he gets let off

Third Scenario Drop'em

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7 Re: BOTD 20 May 2013 - Ticket to Trouble on Mon May 20, 2013 2:33 am

ivor


Marshall
I'm in the passenger seat of Katz' car.

As for older brother's comment - if you don't always paddle for such offences but only in unusual circumstances and these don't meet those criteria, then "button it bro".

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8 Re: BOTD 20 May 2013 - Ticket to Trouble on Mon May 20, 2013 4:07 am

Jack


Admin
For reference, the ticket says he was doing 40 in a 30 zone. Just a regular road, no school zone or anything.

Also, he wasn't involved in the wreck in number two, but he'd pulled into the school, and the people who had the wreck were blocking him in so he couldn't leave.

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9 Re: BOTD 20 May 2013 - Ticket to Trouble on Mon May 20, 2013 5:08 am

squarecutter


Sherrif
For me it would depend on the degree of speeding/recklessness involved as well as the reasons. Also if he had passengers. especially impressionable younger siblings in the car. I would say that if he had good cause to be late for school I would rather he be late than out of pocket or in trouble with the law or be a danger. and I would do my best to square it with the school while working harder to enforce the right routines at home. Too many of these tickets in the UK and the points tot and bang goes the license. Insurance is then an issue when you get it back. as well Such are modern cars that it is all to easy to slip over the limit without realizing.

So the time to paddle is if Barry or one of his passengers is holding things up in the morning

1 a last warning that he gets a shake on in the morning

2 see my comments above on better late than never. We will discuss that one

3 Don't schools have tuck shops. He gets paddled if that happens again. Once more I would prefer him to be late to school. If he does this he can be late and explain himself/take the rap at school. If he gets caught speeding for this reason he gets it from me

10 Re: BOTD 20 May 2013 - Ticket to Trouble on Mon May 20, 2013 6:05 am

1strappedboy


Sherrif
In our house a ticket doesn't result in loss of driving except in cases of bent metal (Darren, last year).

As to the variations:
1. Swats and get up earlier.
2. Nothing to be done and I'd probably try to fight a ticket 10 mph over!
3. You earned this fairly by choice. Bend over!

11 Re: BOTD 20 May 2013 - Ticket to Trouble on Mon May 20, 2013 8:00 am

Kat


Editor Extraordinaire
I find it very hard to come down on Barry for speeding, as I speed on a regular basis. Driving in the DFW metroplex demands a certain amount of speeding on freeways and some surface roads. Driving ten miles over in some places is probably safer than strict observance of posted speed limits. I'm inclined to cut the kid some slack, though I would probably remonstrate with him in situations 1&2. He could use better judgement. As he was taking care of family business, I will probably pay for the ticket -- especially in situation 2 -- with the warning I won't do so in future. I have to assume that in situation 3, he confessed to me the reason. He'll pay his own ticket for that one and the costs of the defensive driving course he'll probably be taking to avoid an increase in insurance rates.

Kat

12 Re: BOTD 20 May 2013 - Ticket to Trouble on Mon May 20, 2013 10:41 am

AFinch


Sherrif
I agree with Kat (as usual).

At least here, driving the exact speed limit is something that is more likely to cause an accident than driving 5-10 miles over it. And at least here, no self respecting cop not intent on "being a dick" and finding a reason to harass a driver would write a ticket for it.

Like Dimitri, if it's a 10 mph ticket, I'd fight it.

Under the terms of the scenario, for 1 or 2, there'd be no further penalty. If already running late and he decided to stop at a convenience store, well, too bad. Bend over.

13 Re: BOTD 20 May 2013 - Ticket to Trouble on Mon May 20, 2013 2:51 pm

Jack


Admin
In the situations posted above, I doubt I'd find any of them paddle worthy.

Case 1 is the only one where I might wield wood, and then only if leaving late was a regular problem, or if I'd threatened him before he finally got out the door.

Number two is one where I'd simply explain to him how he should have handled it. While punctuality is very important, there are times when something happens that's just beyond ones control. He would have been better off going to the office when(ever) he arrived at school and explaining the circumstances.

Number three is a case where I'd probably give lessons in time management and unintended consequences. If I'd talked to Dmitri before making this decision, I might spank for this, but I doubt it.

In reality, none of these reasons was involved.

BCA (Bransom Christian Academy) is located in the old part of town. Instead of going to his own school by the more usual route, Barry took what could be considered a short cut. It's a bit longer, but it's also an open road, and does avoid some traffic and lights.

The problem is that the road starts at 45, slows to 40, and then drops to 30 as it enters a residential section. The thing is, the drop to 30 takes place right as you come out of a turn, and I can understand how someone might miss it - especially a new driver. There just happened to be a cop there that morning, and that's that.

As for fighting it, the truth is that he was speeding, and it was a residential area (in front of a residential area, but still). While I hate him getting a ticket over something this silly, it should be a good lesson to him (and his brothers) to pay close attention to those things.

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