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BOTD 7/2/13 "Go Cut A Switch!" A DMK Production

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David M. Katz


Marshall
GO CUT A SWITCH!
A DMK Production

Your fourteen year old son, Colin, is still subject to spanking if needed.  Typically Colin is spanked with a paddle but, for very serious problems, you use a switch.  Colin has only been switched twice before in his life.  You require Colin to cut and prepare his own switch and you have showed him how to properly do this.

Today you caught Colin using chewing tobacco and have decided to use a switch for his spanking.  You send Colin out to cut and prepare the switch.

Colin is gone for an unusual amount of time so you go to check on him and see him standing in the yard just staring at the trees.

COLIN - 14
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He sees you and explains that he just can't do it.  Colin explains that he just can't stand the idea of getting switched again and he just can't bring himself to cut a switch.

What do you do?


_________________
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AFinch


Sherrif
I'm going to ask him why he can't stand the idea. His answer will guide my response.

If he can't stand the idea because it's gonna hurt really bad, I'm going to point out that he knew in advance my stance on tobacco and broke the rules anyway. "Do the crime, pay the fine." Too bad, so sad. I'll "motivate" him to cut the switch, or do it for him, and we'll get this over with.

If he can't stand the idea because he thinks he's too old to be spanked now, we'll discuss it. Personally, my take is that if it's something he really doesn't want to have happen, that he fears, and that is likely to keep him from doing it again, he isn't too old. I suspect he'll agree. If not, we can talk about alternative punishments, though my guess is that unless he has absolutely no life now, he'll find a length of time in solitary confinement worse than a switching.

If he can't stand the idea because "it's not fair", I'll want to know why it's unfair. Maybe someone held a gun to his head and forced him to use tobacco.

Although I think the most likely outcome will be that Colin is getting a switching, manhandling a boy into taking a punishment is counterproductive. I don't think spankings (or switchings) work unless there is some degree of acceptance and knowing they're deserved, no matter how much a boy hates them while they're happening.

Stone Man


Marshall
We talk. I don't consider this open defiance as I don't blame the boy for not wanting to be switched and to have to prepare the instrument of his pain as well. Because it is summer and Colin is 14, I'm presuming he has graduated eighth grade and is headed for high school making this is a perfect time to air out what we have used as punishment up to this time. I'm not saying that this punishment will change, but realize it may be time to make some changes.

Is it the switching? The prep? Knowing how I feel about him smoking or chewing or any use of tobacco how did he think I'd punish him? He may argue that a switching is not a deterrent so it doesn't work, but I will argue that switching is a punishment and only works as a deterrent if he thinks about it before misbehaving.

I think the outcome will be me/we prepping a switch and Colin getting whatever I have told him he will get along with the assurance that he will continue to get the same if he wishes to continue his use of tobacco (or other products).

kalico


Sherrif
Very Happy  Kier and stone man said it all for me!!!



hugs kal

1strappedboy


Sherrif
I'll confess, I'm having a difficult time with this one!  Besides the crop from 'dad', mum was wicked with a switch, and yes we had to cut our own. Suspect 

Because of how I was 'handled' from 12-18, I have never used a stick type implement upon the boys.  I cannot bring myself to inflict that particular pain-been there, had that, won't do it!  

Perhaps this will be an opportunity to discuss other methodologies/implements of punishment.  Heaven knows I'm open to discussing it. Given his age, he's able to have some intelligent input though please understand that in my view 14 is NOT 'too old for a spanking' so don't even try going there!

I'll probably default to what the kids would get in R/L for this offense; 12 with the strop well laid on after a lengthy spanking.

Stone Man


Marshall
1strappedboy wrote:

I'll probably default to what the kids would get in R/L for this offense; 12 with the strop well laid on after a lengthy spanking.

Other than going with Colin's age (14) for licks with the strop, your punishment selection would have been what I would have faced and my boys faced under similar circumstances. I haven't had experience with a switch and did not and likely never would use a switch in RL.

I had real troubles answering this one. It would take pages to come up with any where near a complete answer IMHO. Not the least of which is how much this boy looks like my 24 YO's best friend growing up.

John Boy


Sherrif
I need to find out why, but if it is just the pain, I'm sorry son that is the point.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=John+Boy

ivor


Marshall
I'll ride on Stoney's coat tails for this one Smile 

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Ivor+slipper

squarecutter


Sherrif
Kier and Stoney have thought through all the reasons Colin might not be able to bring himself to do this. Bottom line though is that on this occasion Colin is getting switched whether he cuts it or I and AFTERWARDS we can discuss how Colin will be punished in future if that is the issue here.

Jack


Admin
If Colin is an only child, I'm going to ask him why he can't stand the idea of being switched, and then ask why he did something that he should have expected a switching for (tobacco being illegal for under 18). I'll remind him that, if you're going to do something you know you shouldn't do, you have to accept the consequences.

At that point, I'll ask him if he knows why I'm so upset with him. I'm going to make him talk to me about this, and he'll have to point out what he knows about tobacco and breaking the law. If the switching is really that upsetting to him, I'll offer to either pick one for him or introduce him to a new experience - the brush. If he selects the brush, I'll explain that he'll have to do a report on oral tobacco use afterwards. I'm sure he'll accept.

After a long, thorough session with the brush (that will be different from, but probably just as bad as a switching would have been), he can put his boxers back on, then sit at the computer to get started. I'll give him some early guidance, then let him take a recovery break after he's done a bit of reading.

If he's not an only child, and this is family policy, then I'll just have to talk to him about why he's getting switched, then I'll help him pick it.

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MemoryMan


Sherrif
Colin's offence has harmed/affected nobody but himself.  

He is THINKING; at 14 he has reached the age of reason and his brain is currently switched on.  Going through with the punishment  may actually be counterproductive.

We'll go back inside and sit down to quietly discuss his offence and his motivations; the way the talk goes will determine the ultimate outcome.  
I'm flying by the seat of my pants on this one and all options from going through with the feared switching to giving a pass are open.scratch

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Jack


Admin
MemoryMan wrote:Colin's offence has harmed/affected nobody but himself.  

I don't know about where you are, but, in Texas, if a kid is caught (and ticketed for) using tobacco, it's going to effect you very much. At 14, he has no way to pay the court cost, so you're responsible for it (even if you make him work it off), and he has no way to get back and forth to his community service (depending on your area and the CS that's available), so tobacco use by a minor could effect you seriously.

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ivor


Marshall
Jack wrote:
MemoryMan wrote:Colin's offence has harmed/affected nobody but himself.  

I don't know about where you are, but, in Texas, if a kid is caught (and ticketed for) using tobacco, it's going to effect you very much.  At 14, he has no way to pay the court cost, so you're responsible for it (even if you make him work it off), and he has no way to get back and forth to his community service (depending on your area and the CS that's available), so tobacco use by a minor could effect you seriously.

Chewing tobacco simply doesn't happen in the UK so it isn't a crime we can easily relate to.
Over here I doubt that anything would be done by the police about a kid smoking and indeed they do virtually nothing about the use of marijuana and similar so called 'soft' drugs. Indeed a local magistrate (justice) was recently severely ticked off by higher authority for giving a sentence to someone who was taken to court for cannabis production.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Ivor+slipper

Kat


Editor Extraordinaire
I can't blame Colin for not wanting to cut a switch. I expect what most people mean by a switching is a punishment similar to what we often read in an MMSA story, in which a substantial switch is cut from a tree. I experimented a few years ago with a switch cut from one of our crepe myrtle trees and lasted for just six strokes -- far, far less than seems to be typical for a switching. It was far and away the nastiest implement I've experienced. Comparing types of pain is difficult, because pain is not just one sensation. It can be dull, throbbing, achy, sharp, burning, stinging, etc. Tolerance for different sorts of pain is highly individual, and how one experiences different sensations is highly subjective. Prior experience and expectations, as well as a person's innate pain threshold, play a role. For instance, I remember reading a study fairly recently that concluded warning someone that a sensation will hurt makes the subject's experience of the pain worse. I think making a child undergo punishment with an implement that is especially frightening to him is psychological abuse, if not physical abuse.

Ultimately, what will persuade Colin to leave smokeless tobacco alone won't be fear of punishment, so there is just no point in rationalizing a switching on deterrence grounds. He has experienced a switching in the past, yet he still tried the tobacco. Another switching will only convince him to be more careful. It will probably also make him see me as a sadistic bully.

I can punish him adequately without using a switch. Whether he fears the special quality of the pain or whether he detests the rather nasty and humiliating ritual of cutting and preparing it, the experience is likely to produce a negative outcome. I will substitute another implement, most likely a belt.

Kat

MemoryMan


Sherrif
Kat wrote:
Ultimately, what will persuade Colin to leave smokeless tobacco alone won't be fear of punishment,

............................ It will be the realisation that he is abusing himself and multiplying his chances of contracting mouth cancer.  Once I can educate him to believe that with conviction the battle is almost won.

Hopefully he will not yet have developed a craving but if he has he will have my full support rather than my censure as he fights it.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=MemoryMan

David M. Katz


Marshall
This idea just came to me when I looked closely at the pic. I wasn't sure how well it would go over but thanks to all of you for getting into the spirit of the scenario.

I wish my response would be like Kat's but I would probably offer to talk some more then cut the switch myself and get on with business.


_________________
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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AFinch


Sherrif
MemoryMan wrote:
Kat wrote:
Ultimately, what will persuade Colin to leave smokeless tobacco alone won't be fear of punishment,

............................ It will be the realisation that he is abusing himself and multiplying his chances of contracting mouth cancer.  Once I can educate him to believe that with conviction the battle is almost won.

Hopefully he will not yet have developed a craving but if he has he will have my full support rather than my censure as he fights it.

Except it won't be that realization.  14 year olds are invincible, at least in their own minds, and mouth/lung cancer are things that only happen to disgusting looking and sounding "really old people" in TV PSAs. At least that was my experience in 30 years of treating children.

Kat


Editor Extraordinaire
AFinch wrote:Except it won't be that realization.  14 year olds are invincible, at least in their own minds, and mouth/lung cancer are things that only happen to disgusting looking and sounding "really old people" in TV PSAs.  At least that was my experience in 30 years of treating children.

Adolescents do engage in a lot of risky behavior. Education about alcohol abuse, drugs, reckless driving, practicing safe sex, etc. seems to have limited success in piercing their sense of immortality.

What seems more effective where tobacco use is concerned is emphasizing, not the health risks, but the disgusting nature of the habit. Making tobacco use socially unacceptable on the grounds of how unaesthetic it is is a far better strategy for reaching adolescents.

Smoking, let alone chewing tobacco, never tempted me. Part of the reason was suffering so much passive smoke that I damn well knew I would not enjoy cigarettes. Another part of it was my disgust with seeing the effect of smoking on people's teeth, the unappealing discoloration of the skin on their fingers and around their mouths, the stale smell of their breath, bodies, hair and clothes, etc.

I think the bottom line, though, is that if someone is determined to engage in risky behavior, you can't really stop them through either education or fear of punishment. Of course, I'm not saying we shouldn't educate or just sit back and do nothing if we learn a kid is doing something risky. The best hope is that this was an experiment that will not be repeated.

Once people do become addicted, breaking the habit can be next to impossible. My mother never quit smoking, despite suffering from COPD and other smoking-related health problems.

Kat

1strappedboy


Sherrif
I'm going to chime in here re the 'chewing tobacco' issue.  Please remember that my teen years were the late 70's and very early 80's and I was a farm boy in SW PA, so a can of snuff was expected in one's back pocket, whether you actually used it or not!

Interestingly enough, neither of my parents had a kitty about the round ring in my jeans pocket; it was our school authorities that had the problem with it! (There's a piece coming up in "Growing  Up" that details Mr Banks' ire when I withdrew my can in the office.)  I rarely actually used, though both Van and Mish did.  The school would look dimly upon those of us carried our cans but would bust (3 licks) those who they caught actually using!

How the times have changed!

Jack


Admin
A lot of kids in my middle school had Skoal rings. By high school (when the chances of kissing a girl started to increase, I'd imagine) they seemed to become less prevalent. I think two swats was the standard for first offenses here, but the school authority reacted pretty much the same. (I'm wondering what the parents thought of it, but it never seemed to be a huge deal). Then again, the school closed the smoking area the year that I started high school, which kind of shows the different views they had back then.

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