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BOTD 07-07-2013 Driving David - A DMK Production

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Skater


Bransom Postmaster
DRIVING DAVID
A DMK Production

You have two sons.  Derek is sixteen and David is seven.  Both boys are subject to spanking although Derek has not been spanked in a year.  David is a more frequent flyer than his big brother.  Derek just turned sixteen and so he now has his driver's license.  The law in your state requires all children who are nine years old or younger to be restrained in a car safety seat.  David hates the safety seat and protests every time you go anywhere.


DAVID - 7
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DEREK - 16
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Derek is going to go get his hair cut and you ask him if he would take David along as well.  You give Derek the money for the hair cut and remind Derek to make sure David is in his safety seat.

David throws a fit on Derek but Derek manages to get him in the seat for the trip to the barber shop. On the way home, David refuses to get in the safety seat and is throwing a tantrum.  Derek yields and tells David to just sit in the back seat and buckle in and be still. On the way home, David is observed by a police officer and Derek is pulled over and ticketed for violating the child safety law. Derek gets home and shows you the ticket and explains what happened.

Who, if anyone, is in trouble and how do you handle it?


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AFinch


Sherrif
Technically they are both in trouble.

I don't think many 16 year olds, at least ones without spanking privileges, would have been able to deal with David any better than Derek did. The appropriate tack would have been a) "we're not going anywhere until you buckle into that seat, because it's against the law" and when that didn't work b) Derek whips out his cellphone and calls dad. But it's too late for that now. He's already gotten a ticket. He'll be getting his license suspended as a result of it. He's already been punished for trying to do me a favor and having to deal with a brat brother. No further punishment. I'll cover the fine if there is one.

David is getting spanked. Hard. After he's recovered, we can talk about ways to make his seat "cooler" (stickers? etc?), but he will know in no uncertain terms that he stays in the safety seat until he achieves the age/weight specified by law. It doesn't matter whether I agree with that law (I don't)--he has to ride in the seat until he's old/big enough.

John Boy


Sherrif
They are both in trouble, Derek should have called me, and I could have told David he can get in the booster seat or I can come over there, spank him and then he will get in. Derek pays for the ticket out of his own money. David is getting a spanking.

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Kat


Editor Extraordinaire
I agree with Kier. It's just not fair to expect a sixteen-year-old boy to handle his brother in this situation. Perhaps he could have called me, but I don't intend to berate because he didn't think of it.

As for David, I have scant sympathy. I'm sure that many of his friends also are sitting on the booster seats. There are just some situations when you have to suck it up when you're a kid, such as not getting to ride the cool rides at amusement parks, having old people who smell like Bengay give you big wet smooches, and having to sit on car seats/booster seats.

Kat

AFinch


Sherrif
I wonder whether Derek attempted to explain what had happened to the "nice police officer".

If so, had I been the cop, I'd have read David the riot act, likely more effective than a spanking from dad, and let them both go with a warning.

If so, and the cop's response was writing Derek a ticket anyway, it's little wonder people are so distrustful of authority figures.

Stone Man


Marshall
David gets toasted and I'll pay Derek's fine.

Oh for the good old days of reasonable cops who knew the local kids by name and reputation. David was wearing a seat belt and I'm sure Derek was driving carefully. A riot-act speech from the officer to David would have had the desired effect of getting him into the safety seat and made it unnecessary to ticket older brother who was doing the best he could with little bro.

MemoryMan


Sherrif
AFinch wrote: ................. He'll be getting his license suspended as a result of it.  He's already been punished for trying to do me a favor and having to deal with a brat brother.  No further punishment.  I'll cover the fine if there is one.

David is getting spanked.  Hard...................


A neat summing up.  I particularly like that word "Hard"

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squarecutter


Sherrif
Derek has been put in a difficult position because his little brother has exploited the fact that he's not Daddy and probably doesn't have spanking rights. The problem is that 7 year olds don't feel the weight of federal or state law and don't understand 'elf' and safety. They only understand Daddys law. Derek has enough on his plate if he loses driving rights to be punished further. We will talk about what he could have done differently but the failing is partly mine for not forseeing this and I am not punishing for inexperience. Now for my self centred younger whatsit. Does he understand what his obstinacy has caused. What if I lost my license as a result? My job? David not getting to classmates birthday parties. Walking a lot more? Impromptu trips for icecream? David is getting spanked for disobeying me and disrespect to his brother who was doing me a favour and he had better make his apology to Derek a good one.

Ps would they really take Dereks license for this. I think in the UK it would probably be 3 or 6 points and a fine. You need 12 to lose a license

AFinch


Sherrif

Ps would they really take Dereks license for this. I think in the UK it would probably be 3 or 6 points and a fine. You need 12 to lose a license

 It might depend on the state.  In California, any driver age 16-18 who is ticketed will likely have his or her license suspended for 2 months regardless of how minor the incident. 

When I was 16, I was involved in a car accident which wasn't my fault.  I was hit by the other driver.  Nonetheless, the Court, not my parents, suspended my license for 60 days.  I am guessing that sort of thing has gotten worse, not better, over the years.  Pretty much everything else regarding out so-called legal system has.

ivor


Marshall
Not much to add to Kier's original answer, except perhaps to ask Derek if he'd like to give David a few spanks himself before I take over. Idea 

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Jack


Admin
This is one of those occasions where I feel like the cop should have been told the boy was 9 - "he's just small for his age." While the cop was walking up, Derek had plenty of time to tell David to say he was 9, but I can understand him not thinking of it, and even being worried about David messing it up.

I'm guessing this hasn't happened before, in which case I can be forgiven. If I have to fight with David every time, then it's probably not very reasonable of me to expect Derek to be able to deal with him. Derek's not only getting a free walk on this, but I'm going to talk to a traffic lawyer - if this is considered a moving violation, I'll try to see if there's a way we can keep it off his record.

As for David, he's now going to have a good reason to not want to sit at all, much less in his car seat.

While I understand why Van didn't want to start using one when he was 7 years old, a similar law's been in effect for nearly four years now, so I have much less sympathy for anyone who's just now 7. It's been explained to David that this is the law and a safety issue, so his bottom is getting bared, and he's getting an upgraded spanking - at 7, that probably means a long session with the small, wooden spatula.

Also, he's not going anywhere with Derek for while.... Or maybe Derek needs spanking permission in cases like this - one parking lot spanking on his bare bottom will probably change David's bar for what embarrassing is.

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Jack


Admin
AFinch wrote:When I was 16, I was involved in a car accident which wasn't my fault.  I was hit by the other driver.  Nonetheless, the Court, not my parents, suspended my license for 60 days.  I am guessing that sort of thing has gotten worse, not better, over the years.  Pretty much everything else regarding out so-called legal system has.

As far as I'm aware, in Texas, it requires two moving violations with a provisional license (basically under 18) to qualify for a suspension.

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1strappedboy


Sherrif
Firmly in the K Klub and agreeing 110% with Jack on this!  

If this happened here (Pennsylvania) it would result in 4 points on one's license.  That will result in an increase of one's insurance rates which are already confiscatory for teen male drivers.

If I hadn't given spanking authority to Derek he gets a pass and said authority henceforth.  

Little Davey is getting thoroughly worn out by me!

Kittykat


Deputy
I'll pay Derek's fine, and David is getting his bare bottom thoroughly spanked with a wooden spoon.

Iconoclast


Trailboss
I can not see myself helping to support outrageous nanny state laws so I will pay Davids fine. But I will expect both my sons to oppose tyrannical laws in any way they can. From now on if they attend government schools I will expect them to carry recorders to catch teachers or principles saying things they do not want made public. We will then MAKE them public! Also they may be able to dig up some dirt on politicians, cops, schoolteachers etc. with a search they can make!

Iconoclast

Padraig


Trailboss
As a professional who has seen too much dead childs but also saved ones I can not understand anyone who has the slightest doubt about child car seats. They are live savers, equal to the seat belt itself. But anyway.

I don't think I can't really blame Derek. We will talk about how he could have solved the situation better but at the end, I will cover the fine (asuming he is old enough to drive by himself without supervison, something he wouldn't be able here until at least 17 1/2 years of age).

Young David however will learn how displeased both Daddy (and big brother) really are.

AFinch


Sherrif
http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/doyle-levitt%20car%20seat%20injuries.pdf

I am also "sort of" a healthcare professional (retired Prof of Pediatric Emergency Medicine at several major US med schools), and also don't enjoy treating seriously ill kids, and hate dealing with dead ones.

The evidence that some form of child restraint prevents injury/fatality better than no restraint is absolutely clear.  BUT, there is no evidence that child safety seats work better than seat belts to prevent serious injury, and at least one study shows better outcomes from seat belts than from safety seats.  That same study showed there might be a 25% reduction in the least serious form of injury (what they call a "possible injury", whatever that really means) in kids using safety seats.  

Given that every kid over the age of 4 I've ever met, and I've met a lot, HATES being in "a baby seat", given the expense of those seats, and the inconvenience to everyone of using them (a three person back seat becomes at best a two person one), and given that there MIGHT be a 25% diminution in somebody getting a bruised finger, but no difference in that same person having his or her life saved by such a device, I'd argue that the cost is not justified by the possible benefit.

How then do such things become law?  Because child seat manufacturers lobby legislators who are clueless, never evaluated anything critically in their entire lives, but will do anything "for the children", whether it makes any sense or not.

Jack


Admin
Okay, I don't edit Icono, because we kind of expect him to go off on tangents, but let's keep this to the scenario, please.

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Padraig


Trailboss
I will not even think of challenging your medical expirience but to me statistics are just one side of the medal. Of course, a child seat has to be used correctly or it might be less effective or even more dangerous than seat belt only.

http://www.firemansfund.com/Documents/PressRelease-09-16-2010-Child_Safety_Seats.pdf

but we are getting quite off topic

Stone Man


Marshall
Yes... by all means let us get back to spanking. Razz 

With the age difference between David and Derek, is it reasonable to give/have given Derek spanking rights to his little brother?

If you are giving them to Derek now, should he be the one to at least start the spanking with you there to supervise?

squarecutter


Sherrif
I think on the older sib spanking I would have no problem with the odd enforcing swat or two to the backside or back of the legs if that can help achieve compliance but Dad needs the one to be giving out the "the works." Both boys will know that in future that DereK has permissin to do that.

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