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BOTD 31 March 2014 - Return of an Old Trouble with a New Friend

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Jack


Admin
You have five children, the oldest of them - and the only boy - is Mike.


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Just over a year after Mike was born, his first sister came along. Then there was a break of just over three years.

When the kids were younger, Mom mostly dealt with them. A plastic flyswatter on the hand or upper legs (when they were wearing shorts) or a wooden spoon (in cold weather) took care of most trouble.

As the kids got older, you found yourself spanking Mike occasionally. Mom used the same flyswatter or spoon, and was about as likely to spank Sis as Mike. Dad normally spanked Mike by hand on undies or bare, but basically never spanked Sis. As the other girls came along, and second sis approached school age, it kind of became obvious that Mike was facing a double standard when it came to discipline. Since Dad wasn't really willing to spank the girls, spankings basically ended for Mike as well.

By the time he was just a few months passed 11, he'd received his last spanking (except for one incident of CP at his private school in seventh grade). Mike will be 17 in just a couple of months.

Mike has been over at a friend's house today. The house is apparently a haven for boys, and Mike spends a lot of time there. So do some of your nephews. One of the boys who lives there is dating Sis (much to Mike's disgust), but he finds it a great retreat from the girliness of your home. On the other hand, the father at that house does a lot of work at home, provides supervision, and doesn't tolerate much nonsense, so you don't have a huge problem with Mike hanging out there.

Today, your phone went off with Mike's ring tone. He sounds very panicky and upset.

"A bunch of us went to Putt-Putt. It was Adam's birthday, and we just went to hang around. When most of them left, a few of us stayed, because we were in the batting cages. We made sure we had a ride, but we didn't realize..."

It turns out that there were four boys, but only one car. Not a huge problem, except that all four boys, while old enough to drive, were still in their first year of driving, so it would be illegal for them to have more than one, under eighteen passenger to whom they weren't related.

None of them really thought about it, especially since they were running a little late, so they just hopped in the car and headed back to Jack's house. The real problem came when they got home to find Jack in the side yard, trying to figure out who was going to be eating dinner.

The other three boys - Eli, Blake, and Johnny...


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... knew they were in trouble. Johnny had only had his license a couple of weeks, and Jack, Johnny's dad, had just talked with him about this. Blake had been warned before, and Eli had actually been punished for it.

"... and they're all gonna get paddled, but Jack said he doesn't have permission to paddle me, so I should just head home, and he'd call you and tell you what happened. Please, even if you still have to ground me, PLEASE give Jack permission to bust me. They'll all be mad if they get it and I don't, and they'll think I'm a wimp or something. PLEASE!!"

Pretty please?


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John Boy


Sherrif
Well I guess you are at his house so his rules... join your friends.

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kalico


Sherrif
Yup.....ditto jb



Hugs kal

David M. Katz


Marshall
Sounds like I trust Jack and Mike is definitely old enough to understand what he is asking for.

I will grant permission and ask to speak to Jack. I will tell Jack to let Mike have whatever the other boys get. Also, the issue is closed. As I see it Mike has been punished - no grounding from me.


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AFinch


Sherrif
K Club united

StevieWeeks


Trailboss
Stevie is going to be hard- hearted here. He's concerned about this and does not want a repeat performance...

Pleading with him is not going to make a difference since it is quite obvious that not being paddled along with the other boys will be a far greater deterrent...

He's going to telephone Jack and tell him that he is not to swat Mike under any circumstances because that is exactly what the boy wants... and if he continues pleading, the term of grounding he'll receive will increase dramatically.

He will be grounded for two weekends... restricted to the house for that period.

Stevie.  Twisted Evil

P.S. If I do get too much grief over this from the lad, I might just let it slip that I'm worried he'll have nightmares again if he receives corporal punishment...

1strappedboy


Sherrif
There's some logic to Steve's answer, especially the concept that Mike 'wants' this as punishment and so it would be more of a deterrent to extend the grounding.

The trouble with that is that for ME (our family) I don't use grounding because a) I hate the idea of being a jailer and b) it takes too long and c) ends up punishing more than the intended.  Therefore, I will give the green light for Jack to paddle his rear for him and then I'll "rinse and repeat" when you get home!  Evil or Very Mad  Shocked

StevieWeeks


Trailboss
Of course, if I really wanted to be obnoxious and cause the boy even more grief...  Twisted Evil 

I could point out that we are both Canadian citizens, living in Texas under temporary assignment from my company, and that I am fully intending to return to Canada when this assignment is done, even if he decides to remain in the US and can acquire the necessary green card and all...

Under Canadian law, consenting to the administration of corporal punishment to a seventeen year old is both illegal and a violation of the boy's human rights...

Since it is taking place in Texas where the administration of corporal punishment is legal, I cannot, of course, be charged under Canadian law: BUT, and it is actually a rather large but, the boy could certainly bring a civil action against me under the jurisdiction of the human rights court upon my return to Canada...

I could carefully explain it to Mike's friends... (hehehe)  Laughing 

Nasty Twisted Stevie   Twisted Evil

Stone Man


Marshall
I know enough about Jack to trust him with my son. I'll give Jack a call and give him permission to treat Mike like the rest of the boys, provided I get a detailed account of it. What a Face 

Kat


Editor Extraordinaire
I'm with the K Club. Mike has to save face with his friends. There will be no further retribution from me.

Kat

AFinch


Sherrif
Mike's spankings didn't end because his dad was opposed to the idea. And his mom spanked him as well. They ended because of perceived "unfairness" between the treatment of Mike and his sisters.

Since his friends are getting paddled, and since he's asked to be as well to maintain his "street cred" or whatever, I can think of no good reason not to agree.

Padraig


Trailboss
I agree with (almost) everyone else. He can take his medicine from Jack.

squarecutter


Sherrif
Did Mike feel the injustice of being spanked by us when the girls weren't or was it us. If the first, I am guessing that only peer pressure s driving this. I'm not against the idea of a spanking on principle, only whether I as the father shouldn't be taking this on. I think I will seek assuranecs that I know eactly what I will be lettting Mike in for and that Jack will take Mikes (relative) inexperience with corporal punishment into account. If happy with what I hear then Jack can proceed

Jack


Admin
squarecutter wrote:Did Mike feel the injustice of being spanked by us when the girls weren't or was it us.

Out of character: My understanding from what I've heard from Mike (directly or repeated from other boys) and from occasional talks with his parents, is that his dad, who was the primary spanker for Mike, especially as he got older, felt it was unfair of him to spank Mike and not the girls. He's pretty understanding of the fact that boys and girls are different in a lot of ways, and that spankings work better for boys than girls (in general). I think he was more worried about Mike coming to feel a real injustice than anything else - so it was all on him. I'm not even sure how much input his wife had into the decision. I think Dave just decided spanking wasn't the best idea for his family and started using other methods.


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MemoryMan


Sherrif
At almost 17 Mike is old enough and mature enough to make decisions for himself.

Its not about whether I trust Jack but whether Mike trusts Jack.

Hence it's a no brainer for me, I'll just give permission.

All the water under the bridge is inconsequential.

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Pi Beta


Deputy
"Up to you, Mike. I'm not going to interfere if that is your choice."

Jack


Admin
I guess I should go ahead and say that yes, this really happened - on Sat, actually (and no, I guess I should have, but I didn't thank the boys for giving me a good BOTD scenario).

Yes, I told Mike I didn't have permission to paddle him, and he should go on home, and I'd call his dad. He headed me off by calling his dad himself. Like several of you, Dave told him that it was his choice, but he talked to me to make sure what I had in mind, and to give me permission.

Mike caught up with us before I got started. I was torn in how hard to be on the boys. They did break a law, but it's only a traffic law, and it's a law that I firmly disagree with. * Still, they're minors, and their parents are responsible for them, and that includes when they break stupid laws.

I had the boys strip to their boxers while I made a final decision. In the long run, this wasn't earth-shattering, and I decided not to go easy, but not to be too harsh - I aimed for slightly easier than middle of the road.

Because Mike and Johnny had never been in trouble for this (though they both knew not to do it) they each got three swats. Blake has been around when other boys were paddled for it, so he should have known better, so he got four. Eli has been paddled for it before, and he was the driver, so the only one who actually broke the law, so he got six.

The worst thing to Mike was that I wasn't giving them the option of keeping their boxers on. He still didn't want to back out, though (well, I'm sure he wanted to, but...).

I had Blake go first, so he could show Mike the proper position. He took his four pretty well. He made that little wailing noise at the end, and he was breathing deep, and had a quivering chin, but he managed to keep control.

Mike was next. He's so tall, we had to turn the chair around. The other boys can't bend over the back, because it catches them too hard across the belly. Mike couldn't bend over the other way, because his head hit the back of the chair. We turned it, he leaned across the back, and grabbed the front legs.

Mike let lose with some loud 'ows' when that paddle busted his bare rear, and he was crying a bit, but he still took it pretty well.

We turned the chair back around for Johnny, and he managed to control himself pretty well.

Eli couldn't quite make it. He was crying hard by the sixth swat. I helped him up and hugged him, and the other three boys came over, shoulder bumping him and patting his back while he got himself under control.

After that, they all got their boxers on, and we talked a bit more. Then they finished dressing and went to clean up. Mainly I told them that I understood they were trying to be on time, but they still should have called me. Then, if I told them to do it, I was taking responsibility for it. As it was, they were forcing the responsibility on me, and bosses don't like that kind of thing anymore than parents do. It's good to take initiative, but I told them they have to work on knowing when to take the initiative and when to double check... And breaking the law needs a double check.




* - I understand the reasons for this law, and can even agree with them. The problems I have with it are first, that it's another case of the government deciding that they know how to handle my kids better than I do. The second thing is that, while it's good to keep kids from hanging out in cars and just cruising --- let me give you an example from last year. Noah had gone to BCA to pick up Van and Gordy that day, and we were having some bad weather - thunderstorm, I think. One of Van's friends didn't have a ride home, and his parents were both at work. Technically, Noah should have just left him there. Explain how that's a good idea, please.


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John Boy


Sherrif
Thanks for the update on this Jack Very Happy

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Stone Man


Marshall
Thanks for the "details", Jack. Those are the ones I was looking for when I gave "my permission" to spank Mike as your own.

Kai


Deputy
Stone Man wrote:Thanks for the "details", Jack. Those are the ones I was looking for when I gave "my permission" to spank Mike as your own.
Very Happy

Padraig


Trailboss
lol

Thanks, Jack.

squarecutter


Sherrif
Jack One part of the scenario begs the question.

How would your boys have reacted if Mike had just gone on home to his folks as told, presumably to be grounded?

Jack


Admin
squarecutter wrote:Jack One part of the scenario begs the question.

How would your boys have reacted if Mike had just gone on home to his folks as told, presumably to be grounded?

Very honestly, I think they would have felt sorry for him for being grounded, instead of just getting it over with. Also, I think the boys might have a certain mindset of 'shared joy is multiplied, shared grief is halved' when it comes to punishment. This group of kids will support each other in cases like this.

The honest truth is that he wasn't in as much trouble as he thought, though. Dave told me that he probably would have chewed him out a bit, and made him do something minor, like clean the cars maybe, before he was allowed to drive again. If he'd been the one driving, he would have been a bit more upset. I understand his view, and I wouldn't have done anything to a younger boy who violated this rule, but I felt that, since they were all 16, and they all knew about it, they all shared some guilt (and a group punishment like that does spread it around and prevent hard feelings from a boy who was just trying to help his friends).


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