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19 June 2014 - Can You Top That?

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1 19 June 2014 - Can You Top That? on Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:03 pm

Jack


Admin
Last March, your twelve-year old son, Steven, was caught shoplifting.

While he denied it, you feel it was because of a couple of kids he'd started hanging around with not too long ago. A close friend of yours is the principal where Steven attends middle school, and he'd told you that the two boys tend to be in trouble pretty regularly, though nothing horrible enough to expel them.

For the shoplifting, Steven received your absolute, top-notch, A-one, butt busting. You also got him busy with other things, so he was distracted from spending as much time with these new kids. With just a bit of subtle guidance (and funding) from you, he started spending more time with his old friends again.

Now, school is out. Steven's old friends are on vacations or visiting non-custodial parents. He's been complaining about being bored. You've tried to help, but you're trying to get things done at work so you can take vacation, which limits how much you can do with him.

Today, you got a call at work. It's the owner of a shop near your home that deals in a lot of pop culture items. You leave work and go to the store.

Steven is waiting when you arrive...
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Steven was there with two other boys, and he was being look out when they were shoplifting. When the shopkeep got suspicious and headed that way, Steven warned them and they took off, but Steven wasn't able to escape.

Steven won't identify the two, but from the description, you have no doubt who it is.

The thing is, Steven apparently didn't steal anything, and he says that, not only did he not know they were shoplifting, but he didn't warn them that the owner was coming.

Do you have something about your best, butt busting effort? Do you need it this time?


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"In the end, it's just a story. But if you ask me, it's all true."
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2 Re: 19 June 2014 - Can You Top That? on Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:17 pm

John Boy


Sherrif
I have two peoples words. Frankly I'm not sure who to trust right now. More then likely he will get a butt busting either for aiding or for attitude.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=John+Boy

3 Re: 19 June 2014 - Can You Top That? on Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:35 pm

Iconoclast


Trailboss
Unless there is convincing video evidence that Steven actually had something to do with something illegal I will just take Steven home and warn him not to go back to the store and not to associate with the 2 hellions! Or Else!

At least Steven remembered my advice to say nothing!

Iconoclast

4 Re: 19 June 2014 - Can You Top That? on Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:24 pm

StevieWeeks


Trailboss
I'll put the little brat up for adoption immediately and let someone else deal with the problem...

I don't like kids anyway and all...

5 Re: 19 June 2014 - Can You Top That? on Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:52 pm

1strappedboy


Sherrif
"And this is why I stress being careful with whom you associate.  Once a rep is established it can be incredibly difficult to break free from it."-Exerpt from lecture 415a to Darren.

Certainly applicable here.  I have an accusation and I will act on my suspicions based upon prior experience rather than giving benefit of the doubt which a boy that doesn't have priors would receive.  That being said, it's quite likely that, unless Steve can utterly convince me otherwise, he's now going for the Super-Supremo ultra deluxe package of a spanking and will be forbidden to associate with these kids.

6 Re: 19 June 2014 - Can You Top That? on Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:14 pm

Iconoclast


Trailboss
Yes Dimitri but Steven listened to my rule to SAY NOTHING and I consider that to be the most impotent lesson so he got a pass!

Iconoclast

7 Re: 19 June 2014 - Can You Top That? on Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:37 pm

Stone Man


Marshall
Its time for a heart to heart with Steven as I consider the possibility (probability?) of a hand to bottom intervention.

Steven is being presented with the difficulties that a bad reputation caries with it, as shown by the vast differences in his and the shop owners descriptions of what has transpired. I'll let him know how much I want to side with him, but past actions of his have removed my ability to blindly side with him, and his loyalty to the ones who got away rather than coming clean only serve to push me more into believing the shop owners story.

No mention was made of police involvement, which I hope to avoid, but Steven's stand on identifying the other boys is not making that easy. It helps that there is no proof of Steven stealing anything.

This one is going to have to play itself forward for awhile. Steven will be leading a more restrictive life and will be band from any association with the other boys under threat of a super duper supreme CP session. I don't feel I have enough proof of the level, if any, of his involvement to spank/strop him at this time.



8 Re: 19 June 2014 - Can You Top That? on Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:16 pm

AFinch


Sherrif
I agree with Dimitri.

This is the other side of the "boy who cried wolf" story. If you develop a rep, no one believes you when you tell the truth. IF he's telling the truth. I'd like to always be able to believe my own kid, but if past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior, then I'm right to be skeptical.

Without evidence (or an admission) that Steven actually stole or warned, I'm going to limit my intervention to keeping him on a very tight leash, including a ban from associating with these other kids. If he were older, that wouldn't work, and even at 12, it may be counterproductive, but I want him to know that the association is doing him no favors--he's skating on thin ice with the shop owner, with the police, and with me, and I'm going to make sure that is absolutely crystal clear to him.

Saying nothing to the police may be a good strategy for staying out of jail, but saying nothing to me, after breaking my rules, is not the same thing, Icono, and I don't think he gets praise or a pass for that.

If he was hanging with some OTHER bad influence kids, and the original ones are now being "unfairly demonized", so be it. And if I find out he's lying to me, God help him.

9 Re: 19 June 2014 - Can You Top That? on Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:27 am

MemoryMan


Sherrif
Ditto Keir & Dimitri

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=MemoryMan

10 Re: 19 June 2014 - Can You Top That? on Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:30 am

Kai


Deputy
Ditto Kier, Dimitri and MemoryMan.
Sorry son, but while I have no proof, your record is speaking very much against you.
IF you contribute to the solution of this case I MIGHT rethink.

11 Re: 19 June 2014 - Can You Top That? on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:28 am

Jack


Admin
This is NOT based on a real life event. I'd been thinking of some shoplifting incidents that had happened in my store, and this scenario came to me.

As someone who's had to deal with bunches of kids before, I think what I'd do is step aside with the shop keeper, get his exact version of what happened, then listen to Steve's version. If they match exactly, and Steven explains his actions, then he doesn't get my best efforts. At that point, he and I will have a talk about why I didn't just give him the benefit of the doubt in this case; and why he needs to be careful about whom he spends his time with.

If Steven's story varies too much, he's getting the same lecture, but he'll be getting it before picking a switch -lookout is just as guilty as the crooks, in the eyes of the law.

And while I said this isn't based on RL, it is a bit like what happened to poor Kyle last Thanksgiving, when his brother and some friends were caught shoplifting.


_________________
"In the end, it's just a story. But if you ask me, it's all true."
http://bransomtx.forumotion.net

12 Re: 19 June 2014 - Can You Top That? on Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:10 am

Kat


Editor Extraordinaire
I'm pretty much in agreement with Icono on this one. Yes, Steven has a prior incident of shoplifting, but I punished him for it. I think in fairness I have to consider this fresh accusation on its merits, and unless there is compelling evidence, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. We always are saying that a punishment wipes the slate clean, so we'd better mean it rather than holding past transgressions over a kid's head.

I remember as a kid that there were some stores in town where the adult employees treated kids like dirt; and because kids tend to be pretty powerless, the adults got away with it. My partner Bryan told me that when he was around ten, a shopkeeper actually made him turn out his pockets -- something the man had no authority to do, but ten year olds don't usually know their rights. Bryan was too embarrassed to tell his parents, so he just avoided that store from then on. My point is that adults are not necessarily more credible witnesses than kids. Some view kids with the sort of suspicion and dislike that we'd condemn if kids were a minority with any political power at all.

Kat

13 Re: 19 June 2014 - Can You Top That? on Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:57 am

squarecutter


Sherrif
Steven is at the very least damned by association. We really do need a long talk. I have to be able to tell whether another deluxe butt busting will be what he needs. But I really need him to be honest with me, and himself. His completely banned from anything to do with these other kids outside school and will have  to account to us for all his movements. The mall is also out of bounds unless under adult supervision till he earns my trust again, which will also be the thrust of my chat. I may even see i the police are ameanable to giving him a tour of the cells to show him where this could end

14 Re: 19 June 2014 - Can You Top That? on Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:34 pm

Jack


Admin
Kat wrote:We always are saying that a punishment wipes the slate clean, so we'd better mean it rather than holding past transgressions over a kid's head.

You've said this before, Kat, but I'm pretty sure I don't say this. As a matter of fact, I specifically tell my kids that all I can judge them by is their actions. If they lie, it makes it harder for me to trust them in the future. That's how it is for adults, and it's something that kids need to learn.


_________________
"In the end, it's just a story. But if you ask me, it's all true."
http://bransomtx.forumotion.net

15 Re: 19 June 2014 - Can You Top That? on Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:52 pm

Kat


Editor Extraordinaire
Jack wrote:
Kat wrote:We always are saying that a punishment wipes the slate clean, so we'd better mean it rather than holding past transgressions over a kid's head.

You've said this before, Kat, but I'm pretty sure I don't say this.  As a matter of fact, I specifically tell my kids that all I can judge them by is their actions.  If they lie, it makes it harder for me to trust them in the future.  That's how it is for adults, and it's something that kids need to learn.

Perhaps you don't say it, Jack, but I'm equally sure that many people do; and I'm just as sure that in principle it is a good thing. I see little incentive for a person to try to do better if his past is insurmountable. Anyone who has ever told a lie is forever branded a liar? Anyone who has ever stolen is forever a thief? Then one might as well continue to lie and steal: if you've got the name, you might as well have the game. You are correct that the adult world functions this way, which is a failure in our culture.

Kat

16 Re: 19 June 2014 - Can You Top That? on Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:46 pm

1strappedboy


Sherrif
For good or ill, I do tell the kids 'punishment clears the slate' and it does unless there's a repeat performance.  While we haven't proven a repeat it sure does look that way at the moment.  What I'm emphasizing in my lecture regarding reputation is that because you have a rep, I'm not going to automatically give you the benefit of the doubt; I'm going to investigate a bit more thoroughly and if you're telling me the truth great.  I do have to make sure.  If you aren't you have not only solidified the reputation to you detriment but your punishment will be all the greater for the dishonesty/lack of character.

17 Re: 19 June 2014 - Can You Top That? on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:30 pm

Iconoclast


Trailboss
AFinch wrote:
Saying nothing to the police may be a good strategy for staying out of jail, but saying nothing to me, after breaking my rules, is not the same thing, Icono, and I don't think he gets praise or a pass for that.
With our current overreaching government and other busybodies it is essential that my son learn to SAY NOTHING, even at the price of not telling me either! He must learn NOT to cooperate with the demands of authorities whether or not they appear legitimate.

Iconoclast

18 Re: 19 June 2014 - Can You Top That? on Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:03 pm

Jack


Admin
1strappedboy wrote:For good or ill, I do tell the kids 'punishment clears the slate' and it does unless there's a repeat performance.

This is pretty much what I mean. Once we've dealt with that issue, we put it behind us. The child is forgiven, and we move on. They are not bow-beaten for the behavior, and I don't throw it in their face. However, the behavior did happen.


_________________
"In the end, it's just a story. But if you ask me, it's all true."
http://bransomtx.forumotion.net

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