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BOTD 1/21/15 "Vance's Video Diary" A John Boy Production

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David M. Katz


Marshall
VANCE'S VIDEO DIARY
A John Boy Production

You have two sons.  Vance is fourteen and Bart is ten. Bart is often more difficult than Vance.  Bart is more outspoken than Vance.  Vance feels, sometimes rightfully so, that  Bart gets away with more stuff than he does and that Bart gets preferential treatment.  Vance feels treated differently and unfairly than his brother.  Vance has tried to discuss his feelings with you and your spouse but he was dismissed as you and your spouse feel you treat the boys the same and you feel you are good parents.

Vance felt he had to vent and be heard and so he made a video diary of his feelings.  He spoke strongly against his brother and he spoke strongly against his parents.  Vance spared no words in his video diary describing exactly how he felt about you, your spouse and his brother.  He even used the phrase, "My parents are so f**king unfair!" Vance never intended for anyone to see the video; he was simply getting some stuff off of his chest.

VANCE - 14
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Bart is messing with Vance's camera and comes across the recording.  Bart runs immediately to you and your spouse and shows you the video.  Bart is very offended.  You and your spouse are also hurt and offended.

BART - 10
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How do you deal with Vance?

Do you do anything about Bart?


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Pi Beta


Deputy
So now there will be four individuals, all extremely upset. Vance that his brother looked at his camera and recording that he meant to be as sacrosanct as a personal diary, Bart because of how Vance described him and two parents for similar reasons.

A slanging match with everyone slating everyone else is the most likely outcome - an outcome that will help nobody, nor will spankings for Bart for using Vance's camera and Vance for what he said and his language.

Assuming that I can count to ten, calm down my other half and Bart and calm myself down, what should I do? Individual talks with each - yes, if they'll listen and at the same time I must be prepared to listen and not pass judgement? Have Vance talk one to one with my other half and with Bart - yes, if it can be done calmly? Counselling - over the top as far as I'm concerned. I think I'm going to try to enlist the help of grandparents who often have more empathy with the next but one generation and employ them to act as sounding boards and peacemakers.

With luck, good will come out of this with each "side" better understanding the other's point of view, otherwise, the next four years until Vance disappears as soon as he is able off to a college miles away are going to be very fraught.

MemoryMan


Sherrif
Sure am.

I'm going stop rejecting Vance's complaints out of hand and have a good inward think.  Then I'll discuss them with him - and listen.

I'll also want to know what Bart was doing messing with Vance's camcorder.

Changes are afoot.

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AFinch


Sherrif
It is an unforgivable violation of privacy to read someone's diary, or watch their video diary without express permission.

The strongly worded complaints in the diary are personal--it is NOT the same as if he'd said the same things directly to his parents or brat brother, and they should not be dealt with as if they were.

In an ideal world, Bart is in serious trouble for "messing with" Vance's private things (i.e. video camera) without permission. Anything he found while doing so is "fruit of the poisoned tree" and not subject to comment, and definitely not subject to punishment. If it were me, I'd be concerned about Vance feeling things were that unfair--and I'd want to look within to see if he doesn't have a valid point about that. And even if not, I'd want to talk to Vance to see why he feels that way, and how we can make things better.

In the real world, I'd suspect that if I were that clueless and unfair to begin with, I'd be very angry at seeing the video, and would inflict retribution on Vance while fawning over the little spy who brought me the camera. I hope that isn't what really happened.

db105


Trailboss
I agree with Kier's response. Only:

AFinch wrote:Anything he found while doing so is "fruit of the poisoned tree" and not subject to comment, and definitely not subject to punishment.

Not subject to punishment, yes. However, since it has come out, I think it needs to be commented. We all need to have a family talk where we can explain ourselves openly and try to reach an agreement on what things we need to change.

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Jack


Admin
This is a hard one to answer, simply because I can't see myself excusing a boy's worries without at least trying to talk to him and consider it.

It sounds like the parents in this would 'excuse' Bart's behavior and chew out Vance, possibly spanking him or soaping his mouth for his language.

As for myself, I would have a talk with Vance to try to find out why he feels this way, and to consider if there's any validity to it. One thing we can do to show that I try to be fair is that Vance is going to get a good look at Bart's well spanked bottom after I finish with him.


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Jack


Admin
db105 wrote:I agree with Kier's response. Only:

AFinch wrote:Anything he found while doing so is "fruit of the poisoned tree" and not subject to comment, and definitely not subject to punishment.

Not subject to punishment, yes. However, since it has come out, I think it needs to be commented. We all need to have a family talk where we can explain ourselves openly and try to reach an agreement on what things we need to change.

The only thing I'm going to add is 'fruit of the poisoned tree' is not a concept that applies to parents. Sometimes we have to invade a child's privacy, in order to correct them and help them. Having said that, this is NOT one of those times. I might talk to him about why saying something like that is a bad idea (because of it coming out unexpectedly), but I will not punish him for it, because it was meant to be private.


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db105


Trailboss
One thing I'd like to add: Punish Bart for what he has done, but don't take everything out on him. It's not his fault that I have allowed things to go this far.

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Fenz


Cowboy
I give up. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Kids are impossible, difficult, hard to raise, and they don’t listen.

I'm stringing both of them up in the dungeon and starting a new.





BTW, I love kids. So breathe all. They can be a pain in the ass, they're messy and they stink but they're some of the most loving and best people I've ever met.

Jack


Admin
db105 wrote:One thing I'd like to add: Punish Bart for what he has done, but don't take everything out on him. It's not his fault that I have allowed things to go this far.

I wouldn't advocate taking everything out on him, but I see what he did as heinous. He went into someone's private space without permission, which would basically be a felony, if it weren't his brother, living in the same house (and how do you think the parents would feel if it had been there room, not his brothers?), snooped, and then used his activity to try to get his brother in trouble.

No, I wouldn't blame it all on him, but it would hopefully be the point that jerked me up short, and told me that I needed to jerk him up short.

(Sorry, but as I've said before, I was forced to tolerate intrusive behavior from Satana, and it' still a hot button for me over 30 years later).


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squarecutter


Sherrif
I will start with Bart. Is he genuinely upset or simply hoping Vance will be in trouble. If the latter Bart will be in for a disappointment. I will remind Bart that he should not be poking his nose into Vances things. That is how noses get out of joint. If am to punish Vance I will have to punish Bart as well which would let on to Vance what Bart had been up to. Is that what he wants? Bart is on notice that should he violate Vances privacy again then Vance will have no cause to accuse me of leniency in any way
 This scenario as framed appears to make it look like Im oblivious to Bart winding his brother up. Am I really?
I think I am not going to mention the discovery but,I  think next time I am one on on with Vance and he is being his moody 14 year old self I will try to tease his feelings out of him and allow him to vent without worrying too much about anything inappropriate, Then I will act like I'm only a little surprised as I was aware Vance was angry about something. Then is the time to attempt to meet my son part of the way while reminding Vance that it is easy to forget what you were like just a few years ago. I will also tell him that in many case the first born appears to get it harder  as Parents are learning the ropes as well

Kat


Editor Extraordinaire
I agree with Kier, with Daniel's caveat that we really must discuss Vance's frustration.

Kat

Padraig


Trailboss
Tough one, this.

Vance - a teenager right in the hight of puberty - has the right to be moody and emotional. Nevertheless, this goes beyond. His recordings were wrong, offensive and disrespectful, clearly a reason for punishment - if they were spoken openly. But they were not. If anything, they were a cry for help, because we denied him of one of the most essential support a parent has to give his child - an open ear to talk to, whatever it is.

Than we have Bart the Brat, who has been spoiled far too long.

And we, their parents, are oblivious to everything as we think we are the best parents of the world.

The outcome is pretty much predictable...

:-(

Emlyn Morgan


Trailboss
Hmm.  Tricky one, this.  scratch drunken

Stone Man


Marshall
Vance I will talk with, Bart I will spank.

db105


Trailboss
Emlyn Morgan wrote:Hmm.  Tricky one, this.  scratch drunken

You should whack them! Razz

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John Boy


Sherrif
This is somewhat based off of real life. One day I was really pissed off about something. I think I was in my room after an argument with Mom over Brat. I watched a TV show where they used video diaries to release feelings so that is what I did. I didn't curse and Brat didn't find it, though I did tell Mom later on I made it but I don't think she ever saw it or did anything about it. I had a lot of emotions on issues that never got resolved until way too late. But the one time I used a video diary did help me let off some steam. Even if 95% of it was saying everyone and everything under the sun is unfair.

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db105


Trailboss
It sounds like a good way to let off some steam, John Boy. A diary, video or not, is meant to be private.

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