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2 June 2015: Who's Fault Is It Anyway?

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1 2 June 2015: Who's Fault Is It Anyway? on Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:12 pm

Jack


Admin
Lately, you've had two boys living with you - Nate and James.  Their mother is dealing with some health problems, and currently in a hospice, so she can get constant supervision.  Her husband works close to where she's staying, so spends a lot of time there.  The young boys were bouncing around between different relatives, unsure where they'd be going each day, and having to sometimes make long trips to get to school and back.  You've known them for years now, since you fostered some boys the same age as Nate and James, so you ended up taking them in, to make things easier for everyone.

During the years you've known Nate and James, you've come to treat them like your own children, and both of them have received sore bottoms from you - both with their friends, with their brother, or solo.

With summer coming on, you're going to have more than the normal number of boys around the house, so you've met with them, to remind them of the rules, let them know that you need everyone to follow the rules, to help you keep up with everyone and be sure of what's going on, and that you won't be very tolerant of 'I forgots' right now.

Nate and James have an older, half-brother, by their dad.  Ryan's mother doesn't live nearby, and he went to college near her home, so he hasn't been around here much, but you do know him, and he was a customer of yours before his mom did move away.  When he graduated college last month, he came to visit his dad.  While he's been staying at his dad's house, it was decided he wouldn't be able to handle the boys by himself, so they stayed with you.  However, their Ryan did spend a lot of time with them.  He's thinking of staying here while looking for a job in his field, and maybe working for you.


James - 10, Ryan - 23, and Nate - 12

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One of the regular rules you have is a 9pm curfew for the younger boys, unless they confirm something different with you.  

Ryan comes by this evening and wants to take the kids out to play Putt Putt.  It's just after 6pm, so you have no problem with them going.  You also don't remind them of the curfew, because Ryan was there the last time you went over the rules, and because he says they're only going to play a couple of games.

At 9:45, they're not home and you haven't even heard from them.  You have a job application from Ryan at work, and you're thinking about going there to get it.  Before you can do that, they three of them come home - 45 minutes late.

Both boys know that your standard policy is, more than thirty minutes late is an automatic spanking.  They both look a bit nervous as they come in with Ryan.

"You knew they were out with me," Ryan answers when you ask.  "I didn't think it was a big deal."

Is it?


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2 Re: 2 June 2015: Who's Fault Is It Anyway? on Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:17 pm

Iconoclast


Trailboss
Answer: NO it is not a big deal!

Iconoclast

3 Re: 2 June 2015: Who's Fault Is It Anyway? on Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:21 pm

kalico


Sherrif
As much as I would like to agree with Icono and say it is not a big deal, I just cant do that.....so YES it is a BIG DEAL!



hugs kal

4 Re: 2 June 2015: Who's Fault Is It Anyway? on Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:22 pm

MemoryMan


Sherrif
No. It was a perfectly reasonable assumption to make.

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5 Re: 2 June 2015: Who's Fault Is It Anyway? on Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:43 pm

squarecutter


Sherrif
I might be talking to Ryan about the rules I operate by but really Ryan at 23 is an adult so I don't see the little boys can be punished if Ryan thought it was ok and was providing the wheels. What isn't ok and what I will discuss with Ryan is his brothers enjoying priveleges the other boys around their age aren't afforded I might raise the point with their Dad

6 Re: 2 June 2015: Who's Fault Is It Anyway? on Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:28 pm

Kittykat


Deputy
Eh, I can't see punishing the boys for a one off with their older, adult brother.  There's times to be a hard butt, and times to let things go. You should let it go.

7 Re: 2 June 2015: Who's Fault Is It Anyway? on Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:26 pm

AFinch


Sherrif
No, it's not a big deal. Ryan is 5+ years a legal adult. It's a reasonable assumption that if the littles were with him, it's ok (and they'd have no control over than anyway). Unless there's some reason they needed to be strictly in bed on time (like school or day camp), I don't think it's a big deal either.

8 Re: 2 June 2015: Who's Fault Is It Anyway? on Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:25 pm

David M. Katz


Marshall
Kier saved me lots of typing. DITTO


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9 Re: 2 June 2015: Who's Fault Is It Anyway? on Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:57 am

ivor


Marshall
James & Nate may have broken the curfew but only as a result of the actions of Ryan who, as an adult, was in charge of them. I can see no justification for punishing them even if the fact they apparently 'got away with it' may cause angst with your other boys.

As for Ryan you can only remind him of your rules and ask that he adhere to them in future. From what is said in the scenario I can't see that you have any rights to deny him access to them all you could do is threaten to no longer house them.

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10 Re: 2 June 2015: Who's Fault Is It Anyway? on Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:38 am

Kat


Editor Extraordinaire
I don't think it's a big deal. I would probably just give Ryan a gentle reminder that a considerate person calls if he'll be late.

Kat

11 Re: 2 June 2015: Who's Fault Is It Anyway? on Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:20 pm

Jack


Admin
Kat wrote:I don't think it's a big deal. I would probably just give Ryan a gentle reminder that a considerate person calls if he'll be late.

In actuality, I gave Ryan something a bit more than a 'gentle reminder', and I would like to have busted his butt... I mean, I'd like to do that anyway, but in this case, I mean for his behavior.

This was on a school night. However, it was last Thursday, so the next day was only a partial day, as well as the last day of school.

Ivor stated that he doesn't see where I have authority to deny Ryan access to the boys, but I actually have exactly that. Their father signed a temporary guardianship for me. That means I have parental authority while they're here (which I almost have to have in this situation, both for school manners and in case of a medical emergency). As an adult brother, Ryan really has no (legal) authority over them whatsoever.

On the other hand, Ms. Kitty made a good point about times to be a hardass.

What really saved the situation is that I made a mistake. I should have gotten his phone number before allowing him to leave with them. That way, if something happened, I would have been able to easily contact them. Despite cell phones being common place for close to 15 years now, it's still not my first nature to think about them like that, and that does cause problems like this from time to time.

I did agree with everyone else that it would have been unfair to punish James and Nate for something their big brother did, and I didn't have authority to punish Ryan, so nothing happened this time, except that Ryan got lectured. I mentioned what Kat did, about being considerate, but I also pointed out that I am the one responsible for them right now, and that they have to get along with my kids while they're living here, so he was also being inconsiderate to them. If it hadn't been the last school night until next fall, I would be forbidding him from taking them out again on a school night. As it is, I'll be a little more explicit with him about my expectations.

On the other hand, they have family stuff starting soon, and I think this is the last week they'll be staying with us, so it won't matter too much anyway.

I'd still like to paddle Ryan, though.


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12 Re: 2 June 2015: Who's Fault Is It Anyway? on Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:55 pm

squarecutter


Sherrif
One other thought Jack. Did the possibility of Ryan taking employment with you come into the discussion. Could that have been a lever to use if you wanted

13 Re: 2 June 2015: Who's Fault Is It Anyway? on Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:07 pm

Jack


Admin
squarecutter wrote:One other thought Jack. Did the possibility of Ryan taking employment with you come into the discussion. Could that have been a lever to use if you wanted

It could have done, and I did think to tell him that showing that kind of immaturity to a potential employer is a bad idea, but I didn't want to mix two different subjects. Plus, after making myself cool off, I decided I didn't want to make a federal case out of it, because I (and my book kids) do like Ryan.


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