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BOTD 7/8/15 "Catching Fire" A Jack RL Production

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David M. Katz


Marshall
Catching Fire
A Jack R/L Production

Your 13-year old son, Van, has a number of interests, but making music with his friends is one of the top ones.  To that extent, you cleaned out the garage, where one of his older brothers used to practice, and set it up so they could knock themselves out.

The one problem is that, while Bobby played with an actual band, Van tends to have jam sessions.  Sometimes it's just one or two other boys, other times there's almost enough of them to perform a symphony.  That's a problem because most of them want to use amps, but there aren't enough electrical outlets for the larger sessions.  You've contacted a contractor who's remedying that problem for you, but it takes some work and permits, and it's not ready yet.  In the meantime, you've set rules for all the boys, and explained the reasoning behind each of those rules.



Van loves his keyboard.

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That's why, when you go out to the garage this morning, you're just a little bit hot.

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Since Van's keyboard is one of the cords in that mess, and since you've given him warnings about similar problems with this, you have no problem marching him out to the garage to help unplug everything and care for the cords, before marching him into your office to remind him why things catching fire is a bad idea.

Here's your real problem though.  You know that some of your other sons - Barry, John, Colt, and Kenny had been out there the night before.  However, John plays drums, and doesn't plug anything into sockets; Barry's cheap slide guitar and amp are unhooked and put away, and Colt and Kenny took their instruments and amps inside with them.  


John and Barry

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are older than their brothers.  Are they in trouble for not supervising better or following up?

Also, you know that Eddy (14), Sean (16), and Jack (14), were all there.  

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Not only were they there, but some of the equipment they use when at your house is also among the things still plugged in.  You have permission to deal with all three of them as if they were your own kids.

Is a sore bottom for Van enough?  Does he need more?  And are any of the other boys also in trouble?


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Iconoclast


Trailboss
Most of the multi outlet strips I have seen have built-in 15 amp circuit breakers so it is safe no matter how many plugs are plugged into it. but more multi-outlet strips can be plugged into that one. Just so only 1 strip is plugged into the powerline the current will be limited to 15 amps. So if nothing else is plugged into the same circuit it is still safe!

Iconoclast

Y Lee Coyote


Cowboy
It easy to say that there are too many thing connected but it not the number that counts but the load (power used) and reliability of the connections that matters.  What is shown in the picture is seven very small transformers (is this a phone charging party?) and two power cords.  If this is a 15 amp circuit with nothing else on it and the two unseen items are under a kilowatt combined then this is OK.  However, I suspect that the amps are power hungry and the enhanced wiring (planned) is required and the boys will have share for a while.  The real fire danger is from undersize wiring (cheap extension cords) and connections which they might use rather than the structure's wiring.  There the circuits are protected properly assuming thing are in good repair.  (This is probably true or the electrical contractor would have mentioned it and it should have been in the scenario.)

There is another issue to consider -- hearing loss!  If your supporting several powerful amps then the sound level is going to be excessive.  This can injure the boys hearing and disturb the neighbors.

We just don't have sufficient information to know who was doing what to day before.  Before anything else, it necessary to get the facts.

More education is definitely required and more definitive rules such as listing what being used on each circuit (not outlet) and the total power.  Power strips are definitely better than cheap extension cords but don't count on them having any circuit breakers to limit load.  The garage light should be on a separate circuit so if they trip the amp power breaker, the lights don't go out.

Y

http://www.asstr.org/~YLeeCoyote/

kalico


Sherrif
UGH Van.....

I'm going to say paddle his booty as it is his house and is responsible for his friends.....

As for his other brothers it sounds like they were responsible enough to unplug and put away so no... I am however going to get all involved and let them know I was not happy and that if it happens again they are all done until the remodel is complete


Hugs kal

Kat


Editor Extraordinaire
Icono and Y make me wonder if perhaps I need to rethink punishing Van.

Kat

AFinch


Sherrif
I can't tell from the picture, but I'm guessing the main switch to the power strip is on, not off. Still, if the individual items plugged in are switched off, my limited knowledge of electricity would agree with Y Lee and Icono.

If that's the case, the only thing of Van's that will burn are his ears. Otherwise, Van gets a sore bottom. I'd give everyone else a pass, and if I am that worried about a fire, will place a moratorium on practice with electric instruments until the electrical revision has been completed.

David M. Katz


Marshall
The scenario wrote:  In the meantime, you've set rules for all the boys, and explained the reasoning behind each of those rules.


So, it is disobedience regardless of the electrical jargon applied.

I see Van is culpable so his rear will catch on fire. The other boys will have burning ears.


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John Boy


Sherrif
David M. Katz wrote:
The scenario wrote:  In the meantime, you've set rules for all the boys, and explained the reasoning behind each of those rules.


So, it is disobedience regardless of the electrical jargon applied.

I see Van is culpable so his rear will catch  on fire.  The other boys will have burning ears.

ditto

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MemoryMan


Sherrif
Who did what and when is largely irrelevant.  There is a safety issue; the circuitry is clearly not fit for purpose and the buck stops with me.

The boys may not be happy but the garage will be locked until the remedial work is completed.

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Jack


Admin
From the thread Skater's Boy of the Day

Jack on 17 June 2015 wrote:Also, please keep in mind that the pictures we are using are found and used under Fair Use (private exhibition, not for monetary gain). We do not run out and take pictures to suit the scenario. If you have a question about something, it's more than fair to ask - or to answer two ways, but a picture that doesn't completely match the scenario is somewhat to be expected - not something to obsess over.


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Y Lee Coyote


Cowboy
Your comment, Jack, is a good point.  An image such as here  https://www.pixtastock.com/illustration/9747687 would have been far better to illustrate your point.  My point was that a lot of plugs is not necessarily bad for it is load that counts.

There are three safety/heath issues that need to addressed with rules for each.
1- Limit on total electrical load on each circuit.  The load of each amp etc needs to be in a chart to make it easy.
2- Limit on sound volume to protect ears and neighbors.
3- Non-trip layout of wires by using wire protector on the floor(See: https://www.google.com/search?q=protector+wire+floor) or connections dropped from the ceiling.

The rules and penalties should be printed and posted.  This will also protect Van from peer pressure to break them. 

Of course, the older brothers need to keep an eye on things but it could have been fine when they left so more details are required.  It's Dad's job to make inspections not big brother unless they happen to be there.

Y.

http://www.asstr.org/~YLeeCoyote/

squarecutter


Sherrif
I'm lost. I'm getting an electrician in

Jack


Admin
A few points:

1) For reference, I have always been told that daisy chaining extension cords - or even power strips - isn't safe for a variety of reasons. After some of the above posts, I did a quick Google. Everything I can find STILL says it's a bad idea. While I do believe that boys need to take some risks in their lives, I don't see why letting them do something that's 'just a small risk' is a good idea, when it can be so easily avoided - and even if the cord situation was okay, the equipment still should have been put away.

2) If noise level was a problem, then this would have been a different scenario. I'm not sure why someone who has no idea of what other rules were in place or what was happening would assume there weren't rules to cover that. I'm sure that making up information wasn't meant to insult my intelligence, but let's stick to where we actually have facts please.

3) It's not reasonable to expect big brother to supervise instead of Dad, unless that's one of big brother's assigned jobs. In this case, however, the scenario makes it very clear that big brother WAS there, so it's kind of a moot point.




I just lost a very long post about this, and I'm too tired to do it again.

Van did get spanked with the hairbrush. I gave the spanking in the garage, and he had to put everything away before he could dress.

Nothing happened to Barry, though I did ask him to let me know if he was leaving before everyone put their stuff away.

The little guys didn't do anything wrong.

The three friends - Sean, Eddy, and Jack - did come over the next day. I had a talk with the three of them, and they all admitted they screwed up. None of them wanted to be barred from practices, even short term. I had them line up at the couch, bare, and bend over. Sean is the oldest of that group, but he's not especially big, so I used the oval Lexan on them - three swats each. That was enough for yelping, damp eyes, and a few sniffles. We did also talk to their fathers about it, and all three of them know that, if it happens again, they'll be getting worn out.


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