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BOTD 10-07-2015 Officially Rude - A DMK (Ivor inspired- Autumn Parade Production

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Skater


Bransom Postmaster
OFFICIALLY RUDE
A DMK (ivor Inspired - Autumn Parade) Production
Otto is your fifteen year old son.  Despite his age and athletic build you find that spanking is still very effective with Otto.  Otto is one of the star players on the high school football team. Sadly, Otto is very aware of his athletic abilities and can often be quite cocky and arrogant about it - something you have been working on with him.

OTTO - 15
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During tonight's home football game Otto clearly committed a personal foul against an opposing player.  You saw it easily from the stands.  The official flagged the play and penalized Otto's team.  You also watched as Otto got in the official's face and was visibly rude to him.  Otto even began cursing at the official and you could hear, from your place in the stands, that Otto told the official that, "He was too good of a player to make a stupid move like that and that the official's call was b**ls**t."  Otto was ejected from the game.  This goes against everything you have been trying to teach Otto.

The coaches really don't respond and they say Otto's being ejected from the game is penalty enough.  (They don't want to have to bench their star player for future games.)

You and Otto are now home.  Is being ejected penalty enough?


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AFinch


Sherrif
I think it depends a lot on Otto's demeanor once he's home and has had time to calm down from the high emotions of the game.

At 15, playing organized football, if he now understands what he did was wrong, and is contrite, then being ejected from the game is punishment enough. If he thinks assaulting other players (which is what is implied in his personal foul) is how the game should be played, I'm going to bench him, not spank him. I think that will be a much more effective learning tool for keeping his temper under control. If that results in him cursing ME, he's still not playing, but he won't be SITTING on any benches as well.

db105


Trailboss
At this age I think some persuasion and negotiation need to play a bigger role, even if spankings are working well.

By getting expelled he let down his team but, more importantly, he needs to understand that his behavior was disgraceful and unsportsmanlike. If spanking is our usual discipline tool, I would consider using it. Or maybe explain that it will be used for any future such incident. It depends a lot on his attitude and whether it was an isolated incident or part of a pattern (possibly the latter, if he is prone to being arrogant).

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John Boy


Sherrif
Time to take him down a peg as well as his pants.

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Kat


Editor Extraordinaire
I have to agree with Kier. Being from a state that is mad for high school football, I have no difficulty believing that Otto's coaches are prepared to sacrifice team discipline for the sake of a talented player. Expulsion from a single game in this situation is most certainly not punishment enough. If the kid doesn't show some contrition, then he can take a seat in the stands this season. He's only fifteen, so presumably on the freshman team. Red shirting him for a year may increase his maturity, if not his size.

Kat

David M. Katz


Marshall
Otto needs to realize that he is 15 and only plays with MY permission.

Like others I will see how contrite he is and how his attitude is.

He is definitely going to sit out the next game and, if I get too much mouth from him over that, then he can decide on a session with my belt or sitting out the rest of the season.


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ivor


Marshall
He's definitely going to miss the next game - or maybe more if he gives me any attitude over that decision. Perhaps though it is a pity the coach doesn't employ a paddle.

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Jack


Admin
My real problem here is that I apparently SAW the move for which Otto was penalized, yet he got in trouble for denying it. I don't even understand that mindset. If he had been arguing about a BAD call, I might consider ejection enough. In this case, I think we have a much more serious problem.

When we get home, I'm going to tell Otto what I saw, then I well tell him that apparently football is teaching him all the wrong lessons, so I'll be withdrawing him, unless he can think of a set of consequences and responses that convince me he understands how badly he screwed up, and that he's willing to work on it.

I'm thinking a very sore butt and letters of apology to the official and the other team will be the minimum I accept. I think when he realizes how badly he's screwed up, he'll suggest more than the minimum.


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Pi Beta


Deputy
I'm with Jack on this but would add that I think he should also be (hand)writing letters of apology to all his teammates as well for letting them down.

MemoryMan


Sherrif
...............(They don't want to have to bench their star player for future games.) ........my supposition but very likely spot on.  The coaches are (rightly) concerned with the overall good of the team and it is an unfortunate fact of life generally that "Stars" get special treatment.  

At home Otto is not a star and my overriding concern is his lack of self discipline.  I saw the incident and that Otto was not dismissed for his infringement, but for his show of dissent.  We will be having a talk about that and any further penalty I impose will be influenced both by his attitude and my own observations of the game. Is he genuinely contrite and kicking himself?  Was it an over-enthusiastic tackle?  Was he being outplayed and was some malice involved?  Was the official's decision actually bullshit?

Whatever I decide will certainly not include a unilateral benching that would also punish the whole team.  That is for the coaches to decide.  The scenario states that spanking is still effective so ....... "If it ain't broke don't fix it"  

Whilst I would also certainly encourage an apology I take the view that forced apologies are worthless; their only value being to humiliate the offender.

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Padraig


Trailboss
I see it all the time on the football field (that one where a real ball is played by foot - sorry, could not resist). Everyone sees the foul or offside or something except the players in question. Often they are denying it and are complaining even when their whole team says the decission was right.

In addition if the coach thinks the punishment of being ejected was enoug I will not interfere there. There is no point in punishing the rest of the team by grounding my son if there is not such a team or game rule. What happened on the pitch stays on the pitch, so to say. It's the coaches job to deal with.

I certainly will let Otto know how dissapointed I am but I'll try not to create a situation that will provoke a further reaction that will lead to a punishment itself.

Kat


Editor Extraordinaire
MemoryMan wrote:...............Whatever I decide will certainly not include a unilateral benching that would also punish the whole team.  That is for the coaches to decide.  The scenario states that spanking is still effective so ....... "If it ain't broke don't fix it"  

If winning is all that matters, then by all means, Otto should continue to play. From where I stand, though, Otto's inflated ego and special treatment are not good for him or the team. The other players are learning an Animal Farm lesson: all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. I have little faith in the judgement of high school coaches either to know what is good for a team or to act in accordance with what is in a team's interest. A coach in my hometown back in the 1970s was so obsessed with building a winning team that he insisted on practicing during a thunderstorm; result: one dead player. More recently, a high school football coach put two of his players up to assaulting a game official. The coaches are under tremendous pressure to win, and that has an adverse effect on their judgement.

Kat

squarecutter


Sherrif
I rather wish he'd received a ban to bring it home to him. Swearing at officials is wrong, almost worse than fighting an opponent in my view. Brandon is grounded, other than football training, till the next game and will be paddled next time as well as I am sure receiving a ban as a repeat offender. I also hope the coach will not turn a blind eye for fear of weakening the team. It would send these young men the wrong message

Iconoclast


Trailboss
Padraig wrote:I see it all the time on the football field (that one where a real ball is played by foot - sorry, could not resist). Everyone sees the foul or offside or something except the players in question. Often they are denying it and are complaining even when their whole team says the decission was right.

In addition if the coach thinks the punishment of being ejected was enoug I will not interfere there. There is no point in punishing the rest of the team by grounding my son if there is not such a team or game rule. What happened on the pitch stays on the pitch, so to say. It's the coaches job to deal with.

I certainly will let Otto know how dissapointed I am but I'll try not to create a situation that will provoke a further reaction that will lead to a punishment itself.

The idea that winning is everything IS the ethic the coaches DO try to instill in their players, after all the coaches jobs are, in fact, on the line!

Nothing I can say will change that fact, so I will only mention that arguing about a FACT that is probably recorded on video is STUPID, and ineffective.

Other then that I will say nothing.

Iconoclast

Jack


Admin
Kat wrote:
MemoryMan wrote:...............Whatever I decide will certainly not include a unilateral benching that would also punish the whole team.  That is for the coaches to decide.  The scenario states that spanking is still effective so ....... "If it ain't broke don't fix it"  

If winning is all that matters, then by all means, Otto should continue to play. From where I stand, though, Otto's inflated ego and special treatment are not good for him or the team. The other players are learning an Animal Farm lesson: all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. I have little faith in the judgement of high school coaches either to know what is good for a team or to act in accordance with what is in a team's interest. A coach in my hometown back in the 1970s was so obsessed with building a winning team that he insisted on practicing during a thunderstorm; result: one dead player. More recently, a high school football coach put two of his players up to assaulting a game official. The coaches are under tremendous pressure to win, and that has an adverse effect on their judgement.

Kat

Let me go a bit further to say that, at least in the area where Kat and I are, head football coaches can and often do make more money, not only than the other teachers, but than the principal of the school. While I didn't want to argue with those who aren't familiar with a system like that, I definitely support Kat in the belief that the judgement of coaches can't be trusted in a matter like this.


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MemoryMan


Sherrif
Kat & Jack make very good points  - BUT:

I am dealing (or attempting to deal) with Otto's inflated ego.

Nothing in the scenario indicates that this is anything but a "one off" incident'.

Whilst I can accept that 'winning is everything' is the ethic of some high school coaches my 'special treatment' remark was just a supposition, a general observation relevant to today's world.  Actually nothing in the scenario indicates that this is the case or that other players are routinely benched for committing such an offence.

Team success to the coaches is mainly an ego (and possible financial) boost but it is so much more important to the other team members because it represents ACHIEVEMENT.

Otto can play if selected.

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