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BOTD 8/12/16 "Driving Into Trouble" A Jack RL Production

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David M. Katz


Marshall
Driving Into Trouble
A Jack R/L Production


Last year, you had some trouble with one of your sons and his friends (see: Hitting the Bag? Road? Me? for details).

Today, you had something similar happen.

John is 18.  He had to repeat a grade, so he's about to start his senior year in high school.  When he neared 18, you and he sat down and talked things over, and he decided to continue living with you under the same rules your other boys do.  Technically, he's still subject to CP (normally a few paddle swats on boxers or bare), though you normally give him a choice between that and some type of restriction.  After some initial trouble when he first moved in, John has really been a good kid, a big help, and very little trouble.

One of his best friends is Perry.  Perry is also about to start his senior year, but he's only 16 years old.  He'd been home schooled for several years in his early education, and he is a smart kid.  He's also big for his age (already bigger than John).  You've known Perry for years, you have permission to use CP with him and his little brothers, and you have used it.  Perry is currently staying with you, because of health problems with his family.


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Perry is having some family problems, and he's having trouble dealing with that.  There have been several times that he and John go out just to drive and get away, or to go get a drink or something.  You assume at least part of that is for them to have privacy to talk.  However, you happen to be outside when they pull up today, and you realize that Perry is driving.

While John is over 18, Perry hasn't had driver's ed yet, and doesn't even have a learner's permit, which means he's not allowed to drive at all.

They both know this wasn't allowed, though you hadn't particularly forbidden it in this case.  Do you keep your trend of not switching for driving?  Is this a CP offense, a restriction offense, or maybe a mix of both?


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David M. Katz


Marshall
It is an offense that needs to be addressed. Fortunately no police were involved.

I think the boys can have a choice of some swats on the bare or a restriction.

My caveat would be to know where they were driving. If it was a public road then my answer stands but if it was just in my driveway then a verbal reminder is all that is needed.


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Jack


Admin
David M. Katz wrote:My caveat would be to know where they were driving.  If it was a public road then my answer stands but if it was just in my driveway then a verbal reminder is all that is needed.

You saw them turning into the driveway, so it was definitely a public road.


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AFinch


Sherrif
I think a restriction from driving would be the most effective consequence for this type of behavior.

StevieWeeks


Trailboss
Although having a drink at eighteen (or even sixteen) would not be treated as a terribly seriously in Ontario (the legal age is nineteen), for a young person to be behind the wheel with any alcohol at all in his system is a very serious offence and both boys would very likely be disqualified from driving until they were over 21 - you must have two years driving experience and a full class g2 license for the 0.08 and 0.05 blood alcohol limits to apply...

If they'd been caught by the police they'd both  - licensed driver and learner - be in very serious trouble...

My reaction would be a fairly severe driving restriction on John and all...

He wouldn't get his hands on one of my cars for the better part of a year...

Stevie.

AFinch


Sherrif
StevieWeeks wrote:Although having a drink at eighteen (or even sixteen) would not be treated as a terribly seriously in Ontario (the legal age is nineteen), for a young person to be behind the wheel with any alcohol at all in his system is a very serious offence and both boys would very likely be disqualified from driving until they were over 21 - you must have two years driving experience and a full class g2 license for the 0.08 and 0.05 blood alcohol limits to apply...

If they'd been caught by the police they'd both  - licensed driver and learner - be in very serious trouble...

My reaction would be a fairly severe driving restriction on John and all...

He wouldn't get his hands on one of my cars for the better part of a year...

Stevie.


Did I miss something? I don't see where alcohol, even a drop of it, is involved in this scenario. If it was, my answer would be very different.

StevieWeeks


Trailboss
or to go get a drink or something...

Padraig


Trailboss
They should have a reasonable explanation. But if there was one the stunt wouldn't end up as BOTD, would it? cyclops

AFinch


Sherrif
StevieWeeks wrote:
or to go get a drink or something...

I took that to mean a soda. There's no place boys that age could go to purchase an alcoholic drink.

kalico


Sherrif
Wow that really a tough one I'm inclined to go with a switch due to the fact if they were caught the car could have been impounded and lots of fines....

The sympathetic me wants to go easy with paddle swats....



Hugs kal

squarecutter


Sherrif
Perry in the UK would be considered an underage driver without a license. Serious enough. If under the influence very serious. Fortunately for us all I'VE caught them and not the Cops. I think we take the road driving as read. I want to know if Perrys had a drink too. John as a passenger and at 18 would be legally entitled to drink though could be in trouble as an adult allowing a minor to drink and drive without a license. I want to know how much influence he had behind him being Perrys passenger or if this was all Perrys idea. So has Perry drunk. First thing. Its the switch if he has otherwise a strong paddling. John gets paddled but less than Perry if he was in a sense talked into it by the brighter boy.

ivor


Marshall
I guess car restriction would cause various consequences that affect other since school is about to start, unless these are applied only outside of driving to and from school.

Personally I want to know how far Perry has driven. Down the local streets is one thing, any real distance is another. Any punishment I impose will depend on that, but as it should be the same for both it looks like being the paddle as Perry won't be affected by a car restriction.

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Jack


Admin
Allow me to clarify two things at this point:

1) The phrase 'go to get a drink' does refer to a soft drink. This is a term my boys have used for years, usually to run up to the Sonic drive in, get a soda pop or shake, and sit and drink for a while. Other places sometimes substitute, but it's usually just a term to mean, 'we're gonna take off for 30 or 45 minutes, okay?' There was no alcohol involved in this scenario.

2) A driving restriction is only punishment for John, since Perry shouldn't be driving anyway (no car and no license). In that vein, there's ten days left until school starts (22 Aug - a week from next Monday), at which time John will be the designated driver to get Van, Colt, and Zeke to school.


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Pi Beta


Deputy
7 day driving ban for John. Paddle (lots of) for both.

Kat


Editor Extraordinaire
I'm inclined to let this go with a stern warning. I'd be more worried about the insurance issue in case of an accident than about legal problems. In my experience, cops are pretty lenient if the teen has a licensed driver with him. (However, my experience has been with a parent rather than another teenage boy, so I wouldn't rely too much on that.)

Perry should have a learner's permit soon -- a bit surprised he doesn't already -- so this will be a non-issue. Until then, he'll just have to wait. If it happens again, both boys are getting their butts busted and won't be permitted to go out together.

Kat

Jack


Admin
Kat wrote:Perry should have a learner's permit soon -- a bit surprised he doesn't already -- so this will be a non-issue. Until then, he'll just have to wait. If it happens again, both boys are getting their butts busted and won't be permitted to go out together.

To get a learner's permit, you have to be 15 (Perry's 16), but you also have to complete the classroom portion of driver's education, and his family couldn't swing that. When I learned of that, Perry and I did some research and found an online class he can do for $75, and he has that now, but he's waiting on a parent.




squarecutter wrote:John gets paddled but less than Perry if he was in a sense talked into it by the brighter boy.

This was actually hilarious to me. John had to repeat a grade because of trouble he was having with the foster system. He's actually a straight-A student while taking advanced classes. More than that, while Perry is very bright (and big and well built), he's also a bit shy. He may or may not be smarter than John, but I can't see him talking John into doing something he didn't want to do.

(On the other hand, if this took place somewhere that the drinking age was 18, and John had a drink, then realized he shouldn't drive home, I would waive all punishment, except a strict and rather lengthy lecture about responsibility for John).




This was actually a hard decision for me. The boys knew they were in trouble, though, so I sent them up to John's room.

We talked about following the law, even if you don't understand the reason for it, but what we really focused on was the insurance issue - mainly that, if there had been a wreck, the insurance wouldn't have covered Perry, so there would have been some serious troubles (I'm not sure who would be responsible, but if John's car was totaled, he wouldn't be getting another one).

One thing I like about these two boys is that they tend to be accepting. They didn't try to excuse or justify what happened, and I mainly just had to steer them onto the right issues.

While I didn't know what the legal problems could have been (I looked it up later, and I know Perry could have received a ticket for up to $200, though I'm not sure what else might have happened), they knew they'd screwed up, and we all agreed that some moderately serious consequences were required.

We talked about a variety of things, and I considered having them each serve a Day in Seclusion, starting and possibly (but not probably) ending with a sore butt.

Sorry - I'm being called away, and then I have to post tonight's BOTD. I'll finish this tomorrow.


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kalico


Sherrif
Shocked JACK!!!




Hugs kal

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