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BOTD 11-15-2016 Unfair - A Leti Production

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1 BOTD 11-15-2016 Unfair - A Leti Production on Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:17 pm

Skater


Bransom Postmaster
UNFAIR!
A Leti Production

When your now sixteen year-old son, Phil, was born you and your spouse were told it would be unlikely that you all would have any more children.  You were very happy when, seven years later, Pete, who is now nine, was born. As an infant and toddler, Pete had some ongoing health issues but he is fine now.  However, admittedly, you and your spouse do tend to coddle Pete more than you did Phil.

Phil just got his driver's license and you allow him to use the spare vehicle.  Phil has agreed to be responsible to pick Pete up from school since it is on his way home from his school.  This does save you some time in the afternoon.


PHIL -16 & PETE - 9
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Today Phil calls you and says he has been waiting outside of Pete's school for a while.  Phil says most of the students have gone and he even went inside to Pete's classroom but Pete is nowhere to be found.  Phil says he has tried calling Pete's cell (a basic flip phone but you have no land line) but he gets no answer.  Phil is concerned for his brother but he also has an interview for a part time job and Phil says if he waits much longer he will be late for the interview. You tell Phil to go on to the interview and you will deal with Pete.

You try Pete's cell too and get no answer. You work from home and so you are able to leave to go look for your youngest son.  You happen to find Pete and a friend walking along the sidewalk near to your house.  You pull over and collect Pete and, once he is in the car, you ask why he didn't wait on Phil. You also ask why he did not answer his phone.  Pete says his friend, who lives "sorta close" to your house, was walking home and asked Pete to walk with him.  Pete says his phone got taken up at school because he had it out in class and "oh yeah, you got to go get it from Mrs. Watson tomorrow." You take Pete home.

Phil calls you as soon as he gets out of the interview (the job looks promising) and you tell him Pete is fine  and is home and explain what happened. When Phil gets home he finds Pete in the kitchen working on homework and somewhat jokingly says to his brother, "You're sitting really easy for a kid who just got his butt spanked." That is when Pete tells Phil that you did not spank him but only talked to him about it.  Phil gets upset because not only was he worried and almost late for the interview but when Phil was ten he did something very similar and you spanked him for it.

Phil finds you in your office and immediately starts telling you how unfair you are.  An argument happens.  Phil doesn't exactly start yelling at you but he is loud and raises his voice and he also uses a couple of choice words to describe how upset he is.  This does not set well with you and so you tell Phil he is grounded for the week and ask for his keys.  You tell Phil that you will take care of collecting Pete but he is not to drive for a week.  Phil  throws his keys at you and storms off.

Phil is quiet and sullen at dinner.  After dinner, Phil gets a call and he got the job.  Phil comes to you and he does apologize for his tone and language but does explain that you are being very unfair to him and to Pete. Phil tells you he got the job and "unless you want to drive me to and from work then we need to figure out this being grounded thing."

How do you respond to Phil?

Do you change your mind about Pete?


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John Boy


Sherrif
I say work and school grounding rescended. Everything else O O L

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AFinch


Sherrif
I think Phil has every reason to be upset. But no one ever said life is fair.

Still, I think given Phil's worry over Pete going missing, his anxiety about getting the job, and his apology, I'm going to rescind the grounding totally. If just talking was adequate for dealing with Pete's misbehavior, it should certainly be for dealing with Phil's, especially given the circumstances and the apology.

If I were a total hardass, which I'm not, I'd have already spanked Pete, and there wouldn't be an issue.

David M. Katz


Marshall
Have we ever explained to Phil why Pete is treated differently?

I think everything was decided in the heat of the moment and now that calmer heads can prevail Phil too will get a "talking to" and the grounding is rescinded.

To spank Pete now would be unfair but Pete needs to be on notice as to what will happen if this happens again. Embarassed Embarassed Only because we have no land line will I go and collect Pete's phone from Mrs. Watson tomorrow.


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StevieWeeks


Trailboss
Stevie will carefully explain the use of this marvel of modern technology...


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and will provide Peter with a couple of emergency dimes so he can call home in case this situation arises again and all...

Stevie
Twisted Evil

Kat


Editor Extraordinaire
I'm with Kier. I also think it's time to stop coddling Pete. Katz is right: too late to spank Pete for this episode, but he needs to be put on notice.

Kat

squarecutter


Sherrif
May be I should have spanked Pete. Perhaps I should have explained to Phil why I didn't. Phil may not have produced that reaction even if he still thought Pete was getting off easyespecially since he clearly disobeyed a rule to get his phone confiscated. What I willsay to Pete is that unless he gets permission he is t wait at school for his lift or he will be spanked. I am allowing Phil the car to get to and from work only, till the weekend

ivor


Marshall
Pete has evidently led a charmed life so I can sympathise with Phil's angst birth at his little brother' lack of thought and my letting him off.

Phil gets his keys back and Pete is given notice that his butt is on the line in future.

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Jack


Admin
This is hard for me to answer, because it would never have happened in my house.  I can't rap my mind around a kid getting in trouble at school but not punished, then deciding to walk home without letting his ride now, and not getting his rear in worn out.

I honestly think that, after school tomorrow, I'm going to talk with Pete about why his phone was out and following the rules.  Then I'm going to tell him "let's get your pants and shorts down, so we can apply the consequences."

As for Phil, I'm going to remind him, especially since he's just starting a job, that sometimes things are unfair, but that acting out can still have consequences for him.  I'll then remind him that he's my son, that I expect to be treated with respect, and that he's not too old to spank.  As I say that, I'm going to give him a swat on the rear, a hug, and an apology.


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10 Re: BOTD 11-15-2016 Unfair - A Leti Production on Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:54 am

Y Lee Coyote


Cowboy
As the Dad in this I am ashamed.  Of all the people described, Phil was the best behaved and got the worst treatment.  He did everything he had to on time yet his justifiable upset was pounced on.  Let’s go back and see how this is a case of ‘for the want of a nail ... the kingdom was lost’.

Mrs. Watson and the school have behaved irresponsibly.  That Phil was not told that Pete was dismissed and left without his phone is gross negligence.  The confiscation of the phone is abusive and criminal.  It is not a toy although it may at time be used as such.  This is very different than the taking of a game boy.  If he had been playing with his coat would she have taken it and sent him home in the cold?  I don’t think so.  The phone is no different.  It was the method for communicating change of plans and absolutely required.  E.g., what if Phil car had failed, Pete would have needed to know rather than panic.

Steve’s wonderful new invention does not exist in Pete’s world.  And if they did they probably would be labeled “Not for Student Use” and require a couple of quarters rather than dines to operate.  If Pete’s friend had a phone then he should have used that one.

Certainly Pete is in trouble for changing his plans and causing others to worry.  If I had not spotted him, then the police would have been called at great expense to the taxpayers.

Phil was right that I gave Pete a pass when he did not get one for the same misconduct at the same age.  That requires a very good explanation.  I note that Phil did calm down and apologize.

Yes, the world is unfair but I should not be adding to that especially with my sons.  Pete needs to be more impressed with the seriousness of his actions and Phil gets an apology.

Y.

http://www.asstr.org/~YLeeCoyote/

11 Re: BOTD 11-15-2016 Unfair - A Leti Production on Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:24 pm

Jack


Admin
Y Lee Coyote wrote:Mrs. Watson and the school have behaved irresponsibly.  That Phil was not told that Pete was dismissed and left without his phone is gross negligence.  The confiscation of the phone is abusive and criminal.  It is not a toy although it may at time be used as such.  This is very different than the taking of a game boy.  If he had been playing with his coat would she have taken it and sent him home in the cold?  I don’t think so.  The phone is no different.  It was the method for communicating change of plans and absolutely required.  E.g., what if Phil car had failed, Pete would have needed to know rather than panic.

I don't know how one would 'play' with ones coat, but I assume you mean fiddling with it, which is very unlike a phone.

While I haven't taught since cell phones were a thing (at least not ones cheap enough for a kid and small enough to fit in a pocket), I do know that all schools in our ISD as well as BCA have very strict rules about cell phone possession and use by students. If there is an emergency and a need to contact a student, there are also rules in place to deal with that.

Phones are not a right. As a matter of fact, even just a few years ago, my kids weren't allowed phones until they were nearly 16. My oldest kids didn't even have access to cell phones when they were this age.


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12 Re: BOTD 11-15-2016 Unfair - A Leti Production on Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:53 pm

Y Lee Coyote


Cowboy
All that you say Jack is true BUT the rules and expectation are different now.  Taking the boy’s phone prevented ‘dad’ from communicating with him and vice versa and ‘dad’ was NOT aware of this.  Perhaps if the school had called and informed ‘dad’ of the situation BEFORE the end of the school day I might agree with you.

Certainly the lad should not have changed his plans without communicating that fact.

It is not clear what ‘out in class’ means.  Was it sitting on his desk or was he using it?  I mentioned a coat because he could have been fiddling with it and disturbing the class and required it to return home.  I see the phone the same way in this age.

Y.

http://www.asstr.org/~YLeeCoyote/

13 Re: BOTD 11-15-2016 Unfair - A Leti Production on Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:01 am

Jack


Admin
Y Lee Coyote wrote:All that you say Jack is true BUT the rules and expectation are different now.

Sorry, Y Lee. While I can't speak for schools in your area, as a parent with kids currently in school, I can tell you that the rules and expectations are exactly as I described them. As a matter of fact, here's a quote from a school handbook from last year

For safety purposes, the district permits students to possess cell phones; however,
cell phones must remain turned off and out of sight during the instructional day (7:45am-3:30pm), including during all testing. After school dismisses at the end of the day, the students may use their cell phones once they have exited the building. Teachers will collect cell phones and turn them in to the principal’s office.


This is not in our school district. In our school district, kids can use their phone outside of class, such as during lunch. In the district I quoted above, a kid can receive swats for having his phone out during class, and if it is confiscated, there's a $15 fee for having it returned, and that's not incredibly unusual from what I've seen/heard.


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14 Re: BOTD 11-15-2016 Unfair - A Leti Production on Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:22 am

Y Lee Coyote


Cowboy
Jack,

I was expressing an opinion about the wisdom of taking a phone from a kid because of the potential consequences.  I was not addressing current regulations.

I am not saying there should not be a penalty for improper use of cell phone in school but that confiscation has potential terrible consequences.  Sure, one could call the office to tell the student of a change of plan but one needs to know to do that before dismissal time.  (If one changes plans then one knows not to call until after dismissal time to prevent a call during school hours.)  Can a student successfully request the office to report a change of plan to a parent?

Just because a phone can be used improperly does not make it an non-essential item like a gameboy (which is a toy).

This is probably a new dynamic.

Y.

http://www.asstr.org/~YLeeCoyote/

15 Re: BOTD 11-15-2016 Unfair - A Leti Production on Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:47 pm

Jack


Admin
It has been 23 years since my first son moved in with me. It was just me and him living together. Me working. Him going to school. Somehow, despite the potential terrible consequences of not having a phone, we survived.

You see, there really is an easy solution to the problem you pose - if your phone's been taken up, don't change your plans. For that matter, it's only been a couple of weeks since some of my boys got their bottoms busted for changing plans when they shouldn't have.

Phones are not a necessity, they are a convenience. Yes, if a child doesn't have a phone and needs one, they can use the one in the office (repeat - need). I'm sure if the boy in this scenario had asked very nicely, his teacher might have even allowed him to use the phone to contact his brother. That doesn't change the fact that it's a persons duty to know and follow the rules, or accept the consequences if not.


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16 Re: BOTD 11-15-2016 Unfair - A Leti Production on Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:21 pm

kalico


Sherrif
Ditto Ivor.....

Wow $15 is cheap jack... here in our ISD if the phone gets taken away it's a $35 fee and that's after the 30 day mandatory hold from the police station and then after the first $35 it goes up $5 every time .......

Oh and that is also written in our handbooks


Hugs kal

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