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BOTD 12-30-2016 "The Wager" A DMK Production

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1 BOTD 12-30-2016 "The Wager" A DMK Production on Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:11 pm

David M. Katz

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Marshall
THE WAGER
A DMK Production

You have two sons and both boys are still subject to spanking. Otto is fourteen and Oliver is thirteen.

You use a paddle on both boys when they earn a spanking.  The paddle is kept on a shelf in the closet of the bed room the boys share.


THE PADDLE IN QUESTION
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OLIVER - 13 AND OTTO - 14
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Today you aren't feeling well and so you come home early from work.  The boys are on a school break.  As soon as you come in your hear a very familiar sound coming from the boys' bedroom.  You head to the bedroom and the door is open.

Otto, the fourteen-year old, is over his brother's knee with jeans and undies pulled down. Oliver is giving his brother a rather harsh spanking with the paddle.  Even though he is obviously in discomfort, Otto is laughing between his yelps of pain.  Oliver is smiling and you hear him say, "This is what happens to boys who pick losing teams." You clear your throat to make your presence known.  Oliver stops paddling his brother and both boys seem truly shocked to see you.  You ask for an explanation.

The boys explain that they made a wager on a football game and Otto's team lost.  The wager was a spanking with paddle swats equal to the difference in the scores. Otto's team lost big time and so you are told he is in for seventeen swats.  Oliver adds, "He's only had ten, he has seven to go."

You have had issues with the boys gambling on games with each other before but that was always because the wager involved money.  You have told the boys no more gambling and you remind them of that.  Otto responds, "This isn't gambling, we didn't bet any money. Anyway, you aren't supposed to be home."

What do you do?

Do you let Oliver continue?  Do you stop the spanking? Perhaps you take over the paddle and express your displeasure to both boys?  If you do that do you consider the ten swats Otto has already had?  Another reaction?


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Adric

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Cowboy
My first thought is that they are playing a game, having fun, and not actually gambling so I leave them to it.  (I may have a second thought later.)

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StevieWeeks

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Trailboss
OMG... next thing you know they'll be eating ice cream...

18Smacked

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Cowboy
OH my Stevie, they can't do that! Why that would just be...you know, gay!!

I don’t know; I understand that there are many who may react negatively to spanking play/games between siblings and friends, particularly when implements are used. But, Personally, I don’t think it is that big an issue, assuming all parties are consenting, as is the case here.

No money was involved in what they were doing; I am going to leave this be between the kids.

I will give a little bit of a lecture about the remark, “you aren’t supposed to be home” in that I can be home whenever I want, but I won’t make a huge scene over it.

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AFinch

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Sherrif
It doesn't appear that there is any bullying going on. Both boys are willing participants. I'm going to excuse myself and let them do their thing.

Kat

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Editor Extraordinaire
I join the consensus. I don't need to do anything.

Kat

ivor

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Marshall
I can't see this as gambling so I'm lining up with Kier.

(Was the losing team the Redskins???)

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Jack

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Admin
I'm shocked by the number of people who don't see this as gambling. To me, gambling is risking something. I looked up the definition: play games of chance for money; bet. However, the definition of 'bet' is risk something, usually a sum of money, against someone else's on the basis of the outcome of a future event, such as the result of a race or game. For that matter, is it even possible to make a 'wager' without gambling?

For now, I'm going to say 'No marks," and leave. Later, we'll have a talk about gambling. I'll remind them that that type of petty, persnickety rules lawyering does not make me a happy camper, and why they were told to quit gambling (betting, wagering) in the first place.

Other than that, and with a caveat about leaving marks/trouble with CPS, I don't see a reason to make a huge deal about it (as tempting as it is to paddle them for disobeying - maybe I'll just say I'm going to, just to see the look on Otto's face Twisted Evil )


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ivor

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Marshall
Title of today's BOTD - 'The Wager'

Dictionary definition of wager (one of several) 'something staked on an issue'

Is that gambling? Possibly, but I would contend that you could almost define any chance taken as 'gambling' if you so wished.

Is not crossing the street when the lights aren't in your favour gambling?

Is not sending a text on your mobile phone while stopped at an intersection or lights gambling?

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Adric

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Cowboy
Jack wrote:For now, I'm going to say 'No marks," and leave.  Later, we'll have a talk about gambling.  I'll remind them that that type of petty, persnickety rules lawyering does not make me a happy camper, and why they were told to quit gambling (betting, wagering) in the first place.

I should start with the disclaimer that this is a game I would gladly have played with another boy when I was their age.  I would also admit that this activity technically falls under the definitions of wagering quoted above.

But it would not occur to me to call it gambling.  Why were they "told to quit gambling (betting, wagering) in the first place"?  Gambling for money is a well-known addictive activity. Like alcoholism and illegal drugs, it ruins people's lives.  They go in the hole and they become desperate to dig themselves out with more gambling.  They believe in "luck" - that they will win big while others are losers.  There are casinos that abet that addiction, and when you go in one you will see countless zombies mindlessly chucking money into slot machines.  There are phone numbers posted here and there that you can call to get professional help with your addiction.  Minors are not permitted in casinos and these boys are minors.  (As you can guess from my description, I don't gamble for money and I can't understand why anyone would.)

I don't know of any spanking casinos, and that seems to me to be a self-limiting activity.  Maybe it is addictive (else why am I here) but I don't think it has the potential to ruin my life.  The opportunities for that particular kind of wager seem just too rare.

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David M. Katz

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Marshall
"Well, carry on then. I'm going to shut the door and, boys, next time, please make sure the door is closed. Also, keep the laughing and yelping to a minimum. I've got the headache from Hell and I'm going to go lie down."

Seriously, I do wonder if me spanking them in the future will be effective since they have somewhat turned the paddle in to a toy and the process in to a game. Maybe restrictions are now my go to consequence?


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tbfyb

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Cowboy
I see nothing wrong -- if I had known the response before entering I would not have entered ---

Too bad for the loser that this was American Football and not soccer - he should be thankful it wasn't basketball. : )

13 Re: BOTD 12-30-2016 "The Wager" A DMK Production on Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:34 am

David M. Katz

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Marshall
StevieWeeks wrote:OMG... next thing you know they'll be eating ice cream...

Nope. Rainbow sherbet. Cool jocolor


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14 Re: BOTD 12-30-2016 "The Wager" A DMK Production on Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:56 am

Pi Beta

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RIP 9 Jan 47 - 17 June 17
tbfyb wrote:I see nothing wrong -- if I had known the response before entering I would not have entered ---

Too bad for the loser that this was American Football and not soccer - he should be thankful it wasn't basketball.       : )

And even more thankful it wasn't cricket!

Yes, I do see this as gambling. I will let them finish, however, since I believe that debts should be paid in full. When they have finished, I'm going to get them to read the definition of gambling from the dictionary, before asking them their verdict on what I should now do to them after my strict edict.

Should I treat them both equally or even them out will be an interesting discussion. In the end, my solution will be to call this - on this occasion only - gamboling and take no further action.

15 BOTD 12-30-2016 "The Wager" A DMK Production on Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:57 pm

tbfyb

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Cowboy
I grew up an only child on one military base or another --- played a lot of strip poker as a kid  --- I have 5 children and I doubt they ever played the game --- but, I suppose, that would be considered gambling, too.  

I recognize the dangers of gambling -- like anything else, if/when it becomes an obsession it can be a problem -- but I am not opposed to gambling --

and for Pi Beta --- agree --- I enjoy limited overs Cricket and agree -- the loser should be very happy it's not Cricket ---



Last edited by tbfyb on Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

16 BOTD 12-30-2016 "The Wager" A DMK Production on Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:01 pm

tbfyb

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Cowboy
Ivor said "Is not crossing the street when the lights aren't in your favour gambling?"

In the Las Vegas area, crossing the street whether the lights were in your favor or not would be taking a risk -- when I drive a car I certainly don't start moving when the light turns Green --- I look both ways, first, to be certain no one is going to run the light.

17 BOTD 12-30-2016 "The Wager" A DMK Production on Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:17 pm

tbfyb

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Cowboy
Jack -- the scenario said that previous problems with the boys re. gambling involved money -- I think, if the objection is to all forms of gambling, that needs to be made clear -- or clearer than previously stated.

Jack correctly said that he told the boys no more gambling . . . and that he can't think of anything clearer than that - - - perhaps but the full scenario said:

You have had issues with the boys gambling on games with each other before but that was always because the wager involved money. You have told the boys no more gambling and you remind them of that.

I'll accept your response -- but because ALL previous incidents involved money it might reasonably be assumed that other gambling incidents, not involving money, may have taken place but did not result in a problem.



Last edited by tbfyb on Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

Adric

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Cowboy
I see most of life's decisions as wagers on an outcome.  Let's take insurance.  If you don't buy insurance then you are betting that the cost of replacing an insured asset will be less than the premiums you would pay to insure it.  If you do buy insurance then you are betting on the opposite outcome.  Either way that is a gamble by the definitions that have been offered above.  (There is even a house take - the profit made by the insurance company.)

So my directive to Otto and Oliver would have been:
Don't risk money on the outcome of an event without my permission.

So yeah, that prohibits them from buying insurance, or not buying insurance, without my permission.  That's the way I want it.  (They will certainly get my permission to buy car insurance.)

And no, that doesn't prohibit them from playing spanking games, or flipping a coin to decide who gets the ice cream and who gets the cake.  I'm saying these wagers are okay since they don't put money at risk.  If I tell them what I mean by gambling, then that is what it means as far as they are concerned.

I'll go along with the "no marks" directive though - that 17 licks sounds pretty rough depending on how they are administered.  I'm glad to know the boy is laughing about it, in between yelps. Twisted Evil

David M. Katz wrote:Seriously, I do wonder if me spanking them in the future will be effective since they have somewhat turned the paddle in to a toy and the process in to a game.  Maybe restrictions are now my go to consequence?

Good point.  This may be the time to start looking more closely at restrictions instead of paddle licks.

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squarecutter

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Sherrif
Adric wrote:I see most of life's decisions as wagers on an outcome.  Let's take insurance.  If you don't buy insurance then you are betting that the cost of replacing an insured asset will be less than the premiums you would pay to insure it.  If you do buy insurance then you are betting on the opposite outcome.  Either way that is a gamble by the definitions that have been offered above.  (There is even a house take - the profit made by the insurance company.)

So my directive to Otto and Oliver would have been:
Don't risk money on the outcome of an event without my permission.

So yeah, that prohibits them from buying insurance, or not buying insurance, without my permission.  That's the way I want it.  (They will certainly get my permission to buy car insurance.)

And no, that doesn't prohibit them from playing spanking games, or flipping a coin to decide who gets the ice cream and who gets the cake.  I'm saying these wagers are okay since they don't put money at risk.  If I tell them what I mean by gambling, then that is what it means as far as they are concerned.

I'll go along with the "no marks" directive though - that 17 licks sounds pretty rough depending on how they are administered.  I'm glad to know the boy is laughing about it, in between yelps. Twisted Evil

David M. Katz wrote:Seriously, I do wonder if me spanking them in the future will be effective since they have somewhat turned the paddle in to a toy and the process in to a game.  Maybe restrictions are now my go to consequence?

Good point.  This may be the time to start looking more closely at restrictions instead of paddle licks.

Re the last point , Maybe I will suggest to the boys I get a larger paddle since that one seems to hold no fears for them! Rugby or gridiron could be pretty deadly games. I agree no marks which will hopefully stop them going ott

AFinch

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Sherrif
I don't think the effectiveness of a parental spanking has anything to do with playing spanking games.

I played spanking games from pre-school through high school, and thoroughly enjoyed them. But I totally hated being spanked by my parents. The two activities really aren't at all the same.

Jack

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Admin
tbfyb wrote:Jack -- the scenario said that previous problems with the boys re. gambling involved money -- I think, if the objection is to all forms of gambling, that needs to be made clear -- or clearer than previously stated.



The scenario says the boys were told 'no more gambling'. I find it hard to think of anymore more clear or concise than that.

If you think that it's okay because money wasn't involved, or that making bets for other things than money isn't gambling, that's fine for you. I was just surprised that so many people thought that. My problems with gambling actually came from boys betting chores - maybe that's why I see it differently.


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Adric

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Cowboy
Jack wrote:The scenario says the boys were told 'no more gambling'.  I find it hard to think of anything more more clear or concise than that.

I agree it is concise, but I don't think it is clear at all.  What do you think about buying insurance?  Is that gambling?  What about not buying insurance?  Also gambling?

Jack wrote:If you think that it's okay because money wasn't involved, or that making bets for other things than money isn't gambling, that's fine for you.  I was just surprised that so many people thought that.

What if the boys flip a coin to see which one gets the piece of cake with the cherry on it?  Should I spank them? Rolling Eyes

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StevieWeeks

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Trailboss
Adric wrote:What if the boys flip a coin to see which one gets the piece of cake with the cherry on it?  Should I spank them?  Rolling Eyes  

Yes... you should definitely spank those two beautiful bottoms... just make sure they're bare and all...

Stevie.

Jack

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Admin
Adric wrote:
Jack wrote:The scenario says the boys were told 'no more gambling'.  I find it hard to think of anything more more clear or concise than that.

I agree it is concise, but I don't think it is clear at all.  What do you think about buying insurance?  Is that gambling?  What about not buying insurance?  Also gambling?

Jack wrote:If you think that it's okay because money wasn't involved, or that making bets for other things than money isn't gambling, that's fine for you.  I was just surprised that so many people thought that.

What if the boys flip a coin to see which one gets the piece of cake with the cherry on it?  Should I spank them? Rolling Eyes

Are you familiar with the term 'reductio ad absurdum'?


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Adric

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Cowboy
Jack wrote:
Adric wrote:What if the boys flip a coin to see which one gets the piece of cake with the cherry on it?  Should I spank them? Rolling Eyes
Are you familiar with the term 'reductio ad absurdum'?
Yes Sir.  Four years of Latin in Jr Hi and HS.  I admit I pushed the envelope.  I guess Dad never completely cured me of that.  Sorry.

My first experience gambling for a spanking was in elementary school.  If you disturbed the class the teacher would send you outside the door to stand in the hall against the wall. If you were lucky she called you back in after awhile and nothing happened.  But now and then the principal walked the halls with his paddle and "visited" with every boy standing out in the hall.  He would talk with you for a minute, give you two licks, and send you back in the room so that everyone could stare at you and snicker.  No paperwork, no double jeopardy, just two licks and back in the room.  That was gambling for a spanking.

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