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1/5/17 - Driving Home

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1 1/5/17 - Driving Home on Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:21 pm

Jack

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Admin
Your oldest child - 21-year old Sarah, is an angel.  Your oldest son, Dennis, has always been a bit of a challenge.  He's a smart, athletic boy, but he's always had the habit of leaping, then looking a few days later.  His little brother, Royce, tends to be a bit more thoughtful - possibly because of all the meetings he overheard between Denny and your belt and paddle.  

Royce at 17

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Royce is a junior this year, making great grades, and he hasn't had any real problems in over a year now.  Technically, the belt is still a possibility for him (and even for Denny), but in reality, his behavior has been such that only minor corrections and an occasional restriction has been required (and the fact that he's the only one at home now, with Denny and Sarah both at college.  

Because he's been doing so well, when Royce wanted to borrow your car and pick up some friends for a New Year's Eve party, you decided to let him.  You called and confirmed the party, and that there would be adults there.  You reminded him that his mom does have a GPS tracker, in case any questions arose.  You talked to him about how to be on the look out for drunks.  Then you let him go.

Everything seemed to be fine.  This morning, you went to go to work.  On the way in, you heard something rattling around.  When you stopped, you looked and found a half full bottle of beer (the lid is on).

When you get home, you ask Royce.  He admits that there were some kids drinking (the party was supervised, but a lot of cars were parked across the street, and they were drinking over there.  Of the three kids he had permission to take to the party, he took two of them home, but also two of the boys who'd been drinking.  He claims he knew nothing about the bottle of beer.  

When you check the GPS, his story pretty well matches up.  He refuses to tell you who had been drinking, but you can guess that the two stops where he dropped off but hadn't been picking up definitely were.  He also says he didn't touch anything himself (and wasn't hanging out over there), except to get his car.  He just didn't want to worry about how the guys were going to get home.

The problem is, he should have left as soon as he found out there was any drinking going on there.  Also, according to your understanding, if they'd been pulled over, he could have been charged with an open container violation, and, since he was in charge of the car, possibly minor in possession.

You feel like Royce did the right thing taking the other kids home, but does that excuse his other transgressions?  Does he lose some driving privileges, or is it time to dust off the strap again?


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2 Re: 1/5/17 - Driving Home on Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:03 pm

AFinch

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Sherrif
I think Royce was placed in a difficult position. I think he did the right thing, taking the other boys home. I'm not sure he knew the legal consequences of an open container, even though he himself had a BAC of 0.00. If we've talked about that before, he'll lose driving privileges. Otherwise, we're just going to have a discussion. No strap.

3 Re: 1/5/17 - Driving Home on Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:22 pm

18Smacked

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Cowboy
I will go along with Kier on this one, for the reasons he cites, but also because I feel that when we use CP with a child, there needs to be an “exit plan.” I do not believe in a policy whereby a child is eligible for all potential violations up to the day the kid turns 18. Or, when goes to college, is living on his own and does not get CP any more. No, I believe in a policy that trains a child to self-govern himself and his behavior. I hope that what I have done with my child will be training him to live in a fashion on his own where no punishment is necessary when he is 18.

The boy kept his word to me in that he solely picked up his friends at the party. There were two others who had been drinking (albeit Royce was not aware of the bottle that one had) but the boy was concerned about them walking home by themselves, and felt he was doing them a service by driving them home. I agree with him. We will, as stated in Kier's comment, have a discussion about the open container law, and he may lose the car for a limited period of time, such as a weekend or so,but that will be it, and I do not want to use CP here.

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4 Re: 1/5/17 - Driving Home on Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:57 pm

Kat

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Editor Extraordinaire
I agree with Kier and 18smacked on this.

Kat

5 Re: 1/5/17 - Driving Home on Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:25 pm

David M. Katz

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Marshall
I can't add to the wisdom of the consensus.


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6 Re: 1/5/17 - Driving Home on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:07 am

squarecutter

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Sherrif
I think Royce has stuck to he spirit if not the letter of the agreement and it is hard to leave friends in the lurch or to chuck their beer out. Is also hard to go home from a party you got permission to go to. Im only thinking that 5 passengers may be too many for a teen in one car but taking his inexperience into account I t ink I let this one slide. Most importantly he wasnt tempted into drinking himself

7 Re: 1/5/17 - Driving Home on Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:44 pm

LLALVA

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Trailboss
Was this a RL BOTD? What happened?
Hugs

Leti

8 Re: 1/5/17 - Driving Home on Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:44 am

MemoryMan

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Sherrif
Royce was placed in a difficult situation but stuck to the spirit of the agreement.  Giving the boys a lift was a praiseworthy deed and I have no problem with that.

We'll discuss the jeopardy his good deed placed him in had he been pulled over so he'll be fully aware in future.

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9 Re: 1/5/17 - Driving Home on Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:07 pm

Jack

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Admin
LLALVA wrote:Was this a RL BOTD? What happened?
Hugs

Leti

Yes, this was a RL scenario. Unfortunately, I posted it right when my RL was going crazy, and so I never shared what actually happened.

I got most of the information from Denny, who was still home for the holidays at that point. Apparently Royce came in and talked to him. I should probably mention here that, while I know and like Royce, and while he's friends with Jeremy, he's just not as close to me as Denny.

Anyway, my understanding is that, after the explanation, Mr. Archer fetched the strop and sat it at the end of Royce's bed, then the two of them talked over the situation, coming up with each thing Royce had done wrong, and discussing how he could/should have handled it. From my second-hand source, it sounds like Royce was ready to get stropped at that point, but his dad started discussing everything he did right.

Maybe the kids' parents need to know that their underage children are drinking, but that's a hard issue to deal with. While he was warned to be much more careful about people bringing stuff into the car, he was pretty much praised for taking the kids home safely, and still pretty much making curfew.

However, while he mostly did right, he was punished... He had to take the car and clean it inside and out, because the kids had gotten crap all over the floorboards.


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10 Re: 1/5/17 - Driving Home on Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:41 pm

db105

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Trailboss
The RL solution sounds reasonable to me. I do not like to apply CP when basically Royce did the right thing. It seems rather bizarre to me that a perfectly sober driver could be in trouble for an "open container violation", done without his knowledge. Anyway, what should he have done differently in that situation? Search his passengers to make sure no one was carrying alcohol, I guess, but I don't know how far you can take that searching your passengers thing. He did a good thing by taking them home safely.


The problem is, he should have left as soon as he found out there was any drinking going on there.

Well... yeah... Are we talking about direct disobedience here or a "common sense" thing? Did I tell him to leave immediately if anyone was drinking? It's kind of difficult to follow that order, and it is not easy for me to get all worked up about it when mostly he has been quite responsible and when it looks like the drinking actually happened outside the party.

No, I can't in good conscience justify a spanking here.

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11 Re: 1/5/17 - Driving Home on Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:18 am

Jack

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Admin
db105 wrote:The RL solution sounds reasonable to me. I do not like to apply CP when basically Royce did the right thing. It seems rather bizarre to me that a perfectly sober driver could be in trouble for an "open container violation", done without his knowledge. Anyway, what should he have done differently in that situation? Search his passengers to make sure no one was carrying alcohol, I guess, but I don't know how far you can take that searching your passengers thing. He did a good thing by taking them home safely.

One of the huge problems with America in the last 20 or 25 years (to me and in my opinion, at least and of course) is that we started to make laws designed to make things easier on the police. It's illegal to set off fireworks in certain cities, but catching someone actually setting them off can be hard, so they made it illegal to possess them at all. Certain sinus medicines can be used in the manufacture of a type of drugs (meth, I think), so they made it illegal to buy very much of it, and when you do buy it, you have to register. And, since someone can just put a lid on a bottle and hand it to someone else or put it down, they made it illegal to have an open container in the car at all.


The problem is, he should have left as soon as he found out there was any drinking going on there.

db105 wrote:Well... yeah... Are we talking about direct disobedience here or a "common sense" thing? Did I tell him to leave immediately if anyone was drinking? It's kind of difficult to follow that order, and it is not easy for me to get all worked up about it when mostly he has been quite responsible and when it looks like the drinking actually happened outside the party.

No, I can't in good conscience justify a spanking here.

My understanding is that when the boys (and their elder sister) got old enough to start going to this type of party, they were all told that if drinking or 'anything' (drugs, I would assume) started happening that they wouldn't want their parents to know about, they should leave. So it was more than a common sense thing, but not a warning specifically for that party. It's really the same type of instruction I give my kids. On the other hand, since the drinking wasn't occurring AT the party, but across the street, I assume Mr. Archer accepted that Royce might not have known about it until he was getting ready to go.


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