Bransom, TX

a discussion place for our web site


You are not connected. Please login or register

BOTD 1/19/17 "This One's Personal" A DMK Production

Go to page : Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Go down  Message [Page 2 of 2]

Kat

avatar
Editor Extraordinaire
Adric wrote:I think there is a lesson here about the way the world works in real life.  Supposing for the sake of argument that the exec purposely goaded Lynn into intemperate remarks just so he could suspend him and defend that decision.  The final result is that the exec won, and Lynn lost.  To avoid losing like that in the future he can't let anyone manipulate him so he loses his cool.

I'm sorry, Adric, but it's remarkably easy to make most people lose their self control. Adolescents tend to be particularly volatile because of actual brain differences from adults and the hormonal soup of puberty. Expecting kids that age to resist goading is unreasonable.

Kat




squarecutter

avatar
Sherrif
db105 wrote:
squarecutter wrote: I will remind Lynn that he is protesting  the result of a free and fair election because he didn't like the result.

I'm not sure I get your point. You are not allowed to protest against a political leader, then, since he got his political power through an election?

Regarding fair, one could argue that an election where the winning candidate gets 3 million votes less than the losing candidate might not be the best moment to boast about the fairness of the electoral process. I would leave it at legal.

Other than that, I agree that the reason for the suspension is his language. One might argue that he was goaded, but that's open to interpretation and he still was in the wrong, no matter how pedagogically questionable and ethically dubious the principal's attitude was.

On the other hand, if he had carried out his protest and he was suspended for looking the other way while Trump was on TV, then that would be political persecution, since the behavior of looking the other way is clearly not worthy of suspension unless you are persecuting someone's political beliefs. (Just like a school can rightfully punish a student for taking part in a protest walkout, but it cannot punish that student more harshly than it would punish a student who just left the school because he felt like it.) That would be the moment to make a real fuss, in my opinion.

No problem with protesting a leaders actions when in office. But yes especially when if Lynns view is not universally held then I dont think a school should be a place for such a demonstration or protest and here I'm also thinking of students who may not care to agree with him. You dont go in for a protest without wanting to be noticed hence the advanced notification I suspect. I do agree that this Principal could have handled this with less confrontaion but the choice of media outlet was not what the protest was about

For some teens and I remember well, whatever your opinon elections are exciting times. It is when your political senses are awakened and for the time you are aware of the way things are done. Some youngsters also see politics in black and white and need to be reminded there are two sides or more. My problem would not be the protest but the place of it

db105

avatar
Trailboss
Adric, I agree that "I'm sorry but" is not good enough. However, I think it's possible to say I'm sorry, the way I spoke and the things I said were wrong and there's no justification for them, and then explain in a polite manner why he got angry and frustrated. If not, simply saying I'm sorry is fine, but it would be a pity not to be able to tell his side, because otherwise, how can the person who is deciding the punishment be fair, if the student is not able to explain himself? If the principal, as the victim of the abusive language should not hear any explanation because it might be construed as a justification, then maybe someone else should be dealing with it and deciding on the punishment.



Last edited by db105 on Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:45 am; edited 2 times in total

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Danny

Kat

avatar
Editor Extraordinaire
squarecutter wrote:No problem with protesting a leaders actions when in office. But yes especially when if Lynns view is not universally held then I dont think a school should be a place for such a demonstration or protest and here I'm also thinking of students who may not care to agree with him. You dont go in for a protest without wanting to be noticed hence the advanced notification I suspect. I do agree that this Principal could have handled this with less confrontaion but the choice of media outlet was not what the protest was about

I don't know what the law in the UK is, but in the US, the Supreme Court has upheld that students have a right to free speech, albeit limited. The protest that was planned was passive in nature. Unless the school had reason to expect problems, they were in the wrong to interfere.

Of course, the students protesting wanted to be noticed; however, they designed a protest that others could easily disregard.

As to the appropriateness of the school as a venue for protest, I'd argue it's the perfect venue for kids that age. The school is where they spend much of their waking life. It is their peers they hope to engage. There wouldn't be much need for a protest in a place where the views were universal. The planned protest in this case was not disruptive. It didn't make use of language or imagery that was offensive.

Kat

db105

avatar
Trailboss
squarecutter wrote:
No problem with protesting a leaders actions when in office

Also no problem with protesting a leader's behavior and words before taking office. Winning an election means you get to take office. It does not mean no one else is allowed to criticize you for your past behavior.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Danny

squarecutter

avatar
Sherrif
Kat wrote:
squarecutter wrote:No problem with protesting a leaders actions when in office. But yes especially when if Lynns view is not universally held then I dont think a school should be a place for such a demonstration or protest and here I'm also thinking of students who may not care to agree with him. You dont go in for a protest without wanting to be noticed hence the advanced notification I suspect. I do agree that this Principal could have handled this with less confrontaion but the choice of media outlet was not what the protest was about

I don't know what the law in the UK is, but in the US, the Supreme Court has upheld that students have a right to free speech, albeit limited. The protest that was planned was passive in nature. Unless the school had reason to expect problems, they were in the wrong to interfere.

Of course, the students protesting wanted to be noticed; however, they designed a protest that others could easily disregard.

As to the appropriateness of the school as a venue for protest, I'd argue it's the perfect venue for kids that age. The school is where they spend much of their waking life. It is their peers they hope to engage. There wouldn't be much need for a protest in a place where the views were universal. The planned protest in this case was not disruptive. It didn't make use of language or imagery that was offensive.

Kat
Am guessing the Princpal thought different. I think in the UK that teachers would have a problem in school but that in university it would be as perfectly ok.There is a danger that in allowing a demo you might be open to accusations of bias if you then denied the right to a counter demo should someone seek to mount such a thing

Pi Beta

avatar
RIP 9 Jan 47 - 17 June 17
In reality, in the UK we have no equivalent. We have a coronation occasionally - last one in 1953! - but changes of government take place quickly after an election with no immediate form of ceremony. The outgoing prime minister is seen travelling by car to Buckingham Palace to hand in his office to the Monarch and then the intended next prime minister visits the Palace to be "asked" to form a government and is then seen making a brief speech on the steps of 10 Downing Street before getting on with the job!

The Cemeron - May handover took at most two hours from the former's resignation to the latter's accession - no time at all to mount a demonstration - or even to arrange for students to be watching the proceedings in school. Indeed, I suspect that the first many knew of the change was when they got home from school/work that evening!

I think DMK probably hit the right note in his dealing with this.

Kat

avatar
Editor Extraordinaire
squarecutter wrote:Am guessing the Princpal thought different. I think in the UK that teachers would have a problem in school but that in university it would be  as perfectly ok.There is a danger that in allowing a demo you might be open to accusations of bias if you then denied the right to a counter demo should someone seek to mount such a thing

I'm sure the principal thought different, but he cannot override the students' right to free speech unless he has some foundation to do so. The nature of this particular protest would make a justification difficult. Keep in mind the students aren't carrying around placards, blocking hallways, disrupting a class or doing anything confrontational. I can't see how a counter demonstration in these circumstances is an issue. Students who support Trump have all sorts of ways to show their support.

Kat

Michael Junior

avatar
Kid
David M. Katz wrote:Given Lynn's admissions, I supported the suspension but I did not punish him further.  I will explain why.  Firstly, Lynn absolutely views the suspension as a punishment and is devastated by it and has had a couple of crying spells over it Wednesday evening after coming home from church.  Nathaniel, like most students, views suspension as a vacation.  Lynn truly understands he is being punished and he does understand why.  

After Lynn and I had a very long and productive talk that afternoon I felt that letting the suspension stand with no additional punishment from me is the right course.

I was all set to give Lynn his first paddling from me for his disrespect and language but I did realize he truly had been sufficiently punished and I think double jeopardy doesn't necessarily have to be exclusive to school paddling.

Sounds like you handled it perfectly, Dave. I know in my earlier response, I endorsed the possibility of additional punishment. But given the additional information that you shared about your conversation with Lynn, I think that I would have handled it the same way.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Michael+Junior

Adric

avatar
Cowboy
What happened to Lynn after the suspension?  How did he survive the aftermath of that punishment?  Did he get to stay president?

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Adric

David M. Katz

avatar
Marshall
Adric wrote:What happened to Lynn after the suspension?  How did he survive the aftermath of that punishment?  Did he get to stay president?

Life was normal. He met with the principal and apologized for calling him a F**cking A****le and he ate some crow and took back some of the accusations he made. It was all also in the letter. The executive was duly satisfied. Lynn is still POTTG (President of the Tenth Grade.) It all seems like old news now.


_________________
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=David+M.+Katz

db105

avatar
Trailboss
I'm glad he has put that behind him, and hopefully he has learnt something from it.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Danny

Sponsored content


View previous topic View next topic Back to top  Message [Page 2 of 2]

Go to page : Previous  1, 2

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum