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BOTD 01-26-2016 On *Vacation - A DMK Production

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Skater

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ON *VACATION
A DMK Production


You, your spouse and your two sons, twelve-year old Carter and eight-year old Clinton, are on *vacation. This year you allowed the boys to have their own hotel room. (It is next to yours and accessible to yours through a doorway.)Your room has a king size bed for you and your spouse and the boys' room has a full size bed and a twin size bed.

CLINTON - 8 & CARTER - 12
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You have just checked in and are getting settled.  You hear a commotion from the other room where the boys are at. You walk through the common doorway just in time to see Clinton slugging his older brother in the arm. The boys have obviously been fighting.

You ask what is going on.  Both boys want the big bed.  Carter said it was his since he is older and told Clinton to use the small bed. Clinton called foul and claimed he deserved the bigger bed.  An argument ensued which then turned to blows.

You would spank the boys for fighting if this had happened at home.

Does being on *vacation make a difference?

Who gets the big bed?


*For those who don't speak American English "vacation" translates to "holiday."  Razz   jocolor   Razz


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Jack

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"What would we do if we were at home? Why shouldn't I do that right now?"

I think I'll point out how much money we could share by renting just one room, which would allow them to share. Honestly though, unless one of them is a more active sleeper than I am (which is very) either bed should be fine. Since this is a hotel, I'll suggest they take turns, but that Carter can go first, since he is bigger/older.


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db105

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I would be inclined not to spank here unless I'm at my wit's end with their fighting, and instead mediate a bit a try to put them on the way to reach a compromise. After all, I'm not always going to be next room ready to rush in.

However, since I would normally spank for this I will spank them sitting on the big bed, and have the discussion once each of them is nursing a warm bottom.

I would encourage them to alternate. Each night a different boy can have the big bed. I will tell Carter that, although it's true he is older, he will be older all their lives, and it wouldn't be fair to never let his brother have good things because of that.

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Adric

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db105 wrote:However, since I would normally spank for this I will spank them sitting on the big bed, and have the discussion once each of them is nursing a warm bottom.

I'll go with Daniel on this one, since I have this rule at home that says Fighting => Spanking and it also applies on vacation (or holiday).  Once the bottoms and tempers have cooled a bit I will have them flip a coin for the big bed on the first night and alternate thereafter.

Oh, and I will also explain to them that flipping a coin for the big bed on the first night is not actually the same as gambling.  I might call it unbiased decision-making.



Last edited by Adric on Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:36 pm; edited 2 times in total

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StevieWeeks

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Pack the car and go straight home...

Stevie.

18Smacked

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To me, it really does not make a lot of sense to spank brothers for fighting. It is a natural way for brothers to settle their differences, and the fact is, when a parent punishes for fighting, they are not teaching the kids not to fight, but only to fight out of the vision/hearing of the parents. I realize that many parents want to believe that their kids are always the best of friends, but that kind of a situation is rather rare, particularly with kids such as these, with a four year age differential between them.

I would see if the kids can resolve the bed situation on their own, and suggest that it work like who gets to ride shotgun; alternating every time they get in the car. It should start with the older boy, Carter, getting the big bed first, and then alternating every night that follows.

As for the spanking, I see no special reason to continue the foolishness with that on the vacation; maybe tell the kids that you will cut them a break and not spank them this time, as they are on vacation, but, if they fight once again, you will spank them. Then, keep that promise. But, as it is vacation, and the first night of it, in fact, why not try to avoid starting things off with spanking? It may well not work, but why not give it a try?

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Beaver

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18Smacked wrote:To me, it really does not make a lot of sense to spank brothers for fighting. It is a natural way for brothers to settle their differences, and the fact is, when a parent punishes for fighting, they are not teaching the kids not to fight, but only to fight out of the vision/hearing of the parents. I realize that many parents want to believe that their kids are always the best of friends, but that kind of a situation is rather rare, particularly with kids such as these, with a four year age differential between them.

That is a good point, and is why in my opinion punishment should always be only a small part in the parenting toolbox. One should try to model and encourage positive interactions between the kids. Otherwise, the risk is high that the undesirable behavior persists, at least when you are not around to dish out punishment, or manifests itself in a different way.

While punishment itself does not teach anything, it does remind the kids that there are consequences for their actions. If spanking is the punishment for fighting at home, I feel it should apply as well while being on vocation. Otherwise one sends a mixed message. So I am afraid they have earned themselves a spanking.

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Adric

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Beaver wrote:One should try to model and encourage positive interactions between the kids. Otherwise, the risk is high that the undesirable behavior persists, at least when you are not around to dish out punishment, or manifests itself in a different way.

I agree, and that is the reason why I have them flip a coin to determine who gets the big bed on the first night.  In that case there is no good reason why either of them deserves the big bed so a positive interaction between the boys would be to leave it to chance and accept the result.  If they had flipped in the first place they wouldn't be fighting now.

Beaver wrote:If spanking is the punishment for fighting at home, I feel it should apply as well while being on vocation. Otherwise one sends a mixed message. So I am afraid they have earned themselves a spanking.

Again I agree with Beaver.  The reason for my Fighting => Spanking rule is that fighting that comes to blows carries a risk of injury.  I know that boys have pretty durable bodies, but a serious injury could still result purely by accident.  (Spanking, at least the way I do it, does not carry that risk.)  The message from the spanking is that they must find a safer and more sensible way to settle their differences than slugging away at each other.  I would much rather see a red bottom than a black eye.

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18Smacked

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I should make it clear that I also realize that parents cannot allow mayhem among their children, either. While, to some degree, kids will fight just as part of the natural order of things (particularly boys), one cannot permit kids to actually hurt one another. Rather, there needs to be established limits regarding what "fighting" (wrestling) kids might do.

In the case of my brother and me, we had a four year difference in ages (I was the younger) and I knew that my thighs were very powerful, even as a small child. I could get my brother in a scissors lock, and make him cry "Uncle" every time! And so, that was always my effort when we wrestled.

I think an attempt to use a reward system with these children, in lieu of the threat of spanking, may be worth a shot, especially of it had not been tried in the past. It needs to be carefully explained to the kids, at their level, so that they "buy into it." But, it might be worth a shot at trying it as a way to avoid the pain and tears of a spanking while on vacation.

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David M. Katz

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Marshall
I agree that the boys have earned a spanking but it doesn't have to be harsh. I think a few token spanks will send the message without ruining our vacation and without setting a double standard.

I also agree with the solution of a coin toss followed by alternating nights.


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ivor

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Marshall
Alternate nights strikes me as a weird solution. Would you have then alternating in which bed they sleep when at home? If not then why do things differently here.

The older boy will get the big bed. The younger one will have to get used to his older brother getting the 'big boy' things first while they are both growing up.

As for spanking, no, as we've only just arrived and I don't want to start the vacation on the wrong foot

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Jack

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ivor wrote:Alternate nights strikes me as a weird solution. Would you have then alternating in which bed they sleep when at home? If not then why do things differently here.

It's a weird solution, but it's also a weird problem. At home, each would have their own bed (maybe in their own room) and that would just be the fact. Here at the hotel, neither bed is claimed, and they should be being changed and made each day, so it shouldn't be a big deal. As an oldest child, I agree with you that the oldest should get stuff first, but in reality, it doesn't seem to happen as much as you might think (even I, who tried to set things to 'milestones' ended up giving in). We might ask Kat what he thinks about the baby having to wait. What a Face


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Kat

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I'm going with Jack on this. His solution seems to me the fairest.

Kat

MemoryMan

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Sherrif
No spanking but single warning swat apiece to get their attention.

Then they can have another ten minutes to negotiate a (peaceful) agreement before I come in to toss a coin that will settle the matter for the duration of the holiday.

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Kat

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Editor Extraordinaire
MemoryMan wrote:No spanking but single warning swat apiece to get their attention.

Then they can have another ten minutes to negotiate a (peaceful) agreement before I come in to toss a coin that will settle the matter for the duration of the holiday.

MemoryMan! I'm so pleased to see you! cheers

Kat

StevieWeeks

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Trailboss
Jack wrote:We might ask Kat what he thinks about the baby having to wait.
...

Just so long as the wait wasn't so long that the baby had an 'accident' and all...

Stevie.

ivor

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Marshall
Kat wrote:
MemoryMan wrote:No spanking but single warning swat apiece to get their attention.

Then they can have another ten minutes to negotiate a (peaceful) agreement before I come in to toss a coin that will settle the matter for the duration of the holiday.

MemoryMan! I'm so pleased to see you! cheers

Kat

I'll second that cheers cheers

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18Smacked

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Cowboy
ivor wrote:Alternate nights strikes me as a weird solution. Would you have then alternating in which bed they sleep when at home? If not then why do things differently here.


The fighting issue was regarding who gets to sleep in the bigger bed.

It is very common for brothers (or siblings in general) to alternate who gets to ride "shotgun" sitting in the seat up front, next to the driver, in the car. This system is used in many families. Since there is only one large bed in the room they are sharing, it is not weird to have them alternate using that bed, particularly in view of the fact the the hotel staff changes the sheets on the bed every day (unless the staff are requested not to do so.)

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