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BOTD 04-04-2017 Circumstantial Evidence

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1 BOTD 04-04-2017 Circumstantial Evidence on Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:50 pm

Skater

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Bransom Postmaster
Circumstantial Evidence


Your thirteen year old son Justin was just brought home by the police. (I know you're thinking... easy one but listen) The police tell you they rounded up 3 boys trespassing near the old mine.

Justin knows he's not allowed there and that his butt is for the paddle for sure. He offers now excuses but says he is very sorry. You are so angry you send him to his room to cool down and promise to deal with him later.


Justin
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The phone rings an it's one of the other two who were caught. You tell him that Justin can't come to the phone right now but Tommy tells you he would like to speak to you. Tommy tells you he is in his room waiting for his Dad to get home. He tells you his Mom said it was OK to call you.

Bottom line he tells you that Justin did not want to go. He tells you he just followed the other two boys to talk them out it. He says when they went inside the mine that your son waited outside. In fact Justin could have ran because he saw the police coming but waited for them to come outside.

Tommy then just says, "that's all I wanted to say, I better go wait for my dad to whip my butt"

What will you do now?


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AFinch

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Sherrif
I can't really see any advantage to Tommy lying to get Justin out of the whipping he himself is about to get from his own dad.

Justin has offered no excuse. I'm going to tell Justin I've just had an interesting call from his friend Tommy. If he confirms the details of that conversation, I think he gets a pass.

db105

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Trailboss
I'll talk with him and listen to his version, but my inclination is to let him off with just a discussion on how he could have avoided trouble altogether by leaving when it was clear the other boys were going to trespass. However, I'll praise the rest of his behavior.

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18Smacked

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Cowboy
I will go along with the two prior replies. I would do all they have written about.

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Adric

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Cowboy
I agree with Kier, Daniel, and 18Smacked.

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6 Re: BOTD 04-04-2017 Circumstantial Evidence on Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:45 pm

David M. Katz

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Marshall
Yeah, the solution to this one is evident.  I am with the others.

I do endorse a strong discussion but no punishment.


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ivor

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Marshall
Everyone's thoughts on this seem to be the same as mine. Smile

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Jack

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Admin
I basically agree with everyone else, but I do have a couple of questions.

First, where was the trespassing? There is nothing said about the police giving tickets or anything. Is that because Justin wasn't actually caught trespassing, but was just with the other boys or is the entire area covered? Second, how does Justin know about this rule? Has he been in trouble for it before? Is it clear that he trespassed by going near it, or could he think that not going in the mine avoided that? Finally, why didn't he tell me what happened? If he doesn't trust me to listen to him, then I should be more worried about that than about this incident (though this is the kind of situation that's really hard to prove, and maybe he doesn't want to feel like he was ratting his friends out).

I think a discussion of the issue should be all that's needed. It sounds like he was trying to keep his friends out of trouble, so he just needs a bit stronger definition of how far to go with that.


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AFinch

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Sherrif
I'm not changing my answer--I'd do what I originally said.

But I would point out that, according to the law, just being at the scene of a crime is enough to get you charged. There is a case featured prominently on the current news where a 21 year old woman is facing first degree MURDER charges, for which she may be EXECUTED, after the three boys (all underage) she encouraged in a home invasion were shot and killed by the homeowner's son, also a teen (and he is facing no charges, nor should he be). That conversation is worth having with Justin, making sure he knows what a very big deal it can be to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

10 Re: BOTD 04-04-2017 Circumstantial Evidence on Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:02 am

MemoryMan

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Sherrif
The doc has it nailed.

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11 Re: BOTD 04-04-2017 Circumstantial Evidence on Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:25 pm

db105

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Trailboss
AFinch wrote:were shot and killed by the homeowner's son, also a teen (and he is facing no charges, nor should he be)

I would not necessarily agree with this, although I admit that the idea that you automatically have the right to kill anyone who trespasses into your home is a very American idea. There's such thing as proportionality in self-defence, though.

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12 Re: BOTD 04-04-2017 Circumstantial Evidence on Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:45 pm

AFinch

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Sherrif
db105 wrote:
AFinch wrote:were shot and killed by the homeowner's son, also a teen (and he is facing no charges, nor should he be)


I would not necessarily agree with this, although I admit that the idea that you automatically have the right to kill anyone who trespasses into your home is a very American idea. There's such thing as proportionality in self-defence, though.

While I agree with proportionality, if you read the whole story, the three "boys" who broke in were dressed as commandos and carrying guns. Unlike certain other American members here, I don't own a gun and I'm afraid of them--but if I'd had one, given the described situation, I'd have used it. Sorry, but I think they got what they had coming to them.

13 Re: BOTD 04-04-2017 Circumstantial Evidence on Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:49 pm

Jack

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Admin
db105 wrote:
AFinch wrote:were shot and killed by the homeowner's son, also a teen (and he is facing no charges, nor should he be)

I would not necessarily agree with this, although I admit that the idea that you automatically have the right to kill anyone who trespasses into your home is a very American idea. There's such thing as proportionality in self-defence, though.

I have an answer I very much want to make to this, but I'm going to muzzle myself, and say that this is a topic that probably should not be discussed further here.

Doc - I don't disagree with you, about what Justin should understand, I do think there's a difference in this situation and the one you mention, since she was actively involved with the crime, while Justin isn't.


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