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10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web

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1 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:59 pm

Jack

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Admin
You raise kids.  In your spare time, you run a few businesses to pay for more kids.

Okay, maybe it's not quite like that.  The fact is, you do have a lot of kids in your life - some you have legal and/or biological responsibility for.  Others you care for because you're able and want to.  Some of those end up being part of your family, while others are never officially close, but you still treat them pretty much like they are.  You have money set aside for all your kids, and nearly enough to retire.  Figuring the care for the kids, you're not exactly rich, but you can afford to do most things you enjoy.

This is Perry.  Perry is 16.  He's going to be 17 at the end of this month.  He's a football player.  He's pretty big (in case you couldn't tell.)


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He's also one of your favorite kids.

Perry's mom has had a lot of health troubles the last few years, and his father has to travel for work, so he and the oldest of his younger brothers have lived with you several times, from a few weeks to a few months. You have papers declaring you a temporary guardian, making it legal for you to treat them like they were your own kids.  More than that, because his own family tends to be made of older women who have trouble dealing with energetic, rambunctious boys, you've been named as the person to take custody of the boys if something does happen to both parents.

One afternoon, Perry shows up and asks to speak to you in your office.  You're worried a bit, because he and his parents (especially his father) have been having some trouble, and he's shown a preference to come to you for discipline when he and his father disagree.  On the one hand, he's a really well built young man, and he tries really hard to 'take it like a man', so it can be fun.  On the other hand, you really like him, and he's definitely not a spanko, which takes the fun out of it.

When you get to your office, Perry takes a seat in the chair you normally use for spanking.  Since the chair at your other desk is much more comfortable, you don't complain, though it's unusual for one of the boys to sit there.

That makes you really happy when he talks to you about you hosting his birthday party.  You know things are pretty tight for his family, so you immediately agree, but are even happier when you here what it is.  His birthday is the 28th, so he'd like to hold a pool party on the 29th.  That's easy, and you insist on grilling burgers and dawgs (brats, kielbasas, and franks) with all the trimmings, and maybe ordering pizzas, and you start talking about cake and ice cream.  He starts trying to draw you back to reality.  He doesn't want to spend much money.  He does want a lot of people invited.  Despite the fact that he's going to be 17, he's a graduating senior, and he wants to invite his senior class (31 other people, including one of your sons), a few of his younger friends from school, a few people he knows from church or the home schooling association (his mom homeschools his younger brothers and all his sisters who are old enough), and a few football playing friends.  Allowing for a few 'date' types, you come up with a list of a bit over 50 people.  

The two of you make an e-vite, put together an invitation, spelling out that it would be mixed gender, but that we would have 'parent approved music', no dancing, and ask for conservative bathing suits.  

When everything's done, Perry turns to your desk and opens the paddle drawer.  After a moment, he draws out the medium Lexan - the paddle you use for older boys.  Holding it, he looks in your general direction, but refuses to meet your eyes.

"I asked Dad if I could get you to host my party. He said 'no'.  He says you already do too much for us, and it would be wrong for me to take advantage of you."

He takes a deep breath and looks at you.

"I know you mostly give 2 or 3 swats, and six is pretty serious.  I figure I disobeyed Dad, then I wasn't honest with you, and I guess I'm taking advantage of you... Uncle Jack, I'm sorry, but I really want something besides the same old little party with just the family.  I know I deserve a whuppin' - even a complete set (his age), but please let me have the party."

"What about your dad?"

"He promised he won't whup me if you already done it, and I'd rather you do it.  Please?"

Hardly a tangle in the web at all.  Of course, he admitted it pretty quick.  The ball (or pool party) is in your court.  What's next?


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2 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:53 pm

db105

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Trailboss
Tempting as it is, I don't really feel comfortable with this. Since I'm the supposed victim here, I'd like to be the judge of whether I'm being taken advantage of, and I don't think I am. I'd be happy to do this. Therefore, if the issue is disobeying his father on something I do not agree on, wouldn't it be better if his father were the one to deal with it? CP is to help modify the behavior, and this seems to be a behavior that none of us wants to modify...

Being human, I guess I could be persuaded. Twisted Evil

But seriously, I don't want Perry to feel he needs to be paddled for asking me for help.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Danny

3 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:03 pm

David M. Katz

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Marshall
db105 wrote:

But seriously, I don't want Perry to feel he needs to be paddled for asking me for help.

Agreed. I will tell him no paddling required.


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4 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:05 pm

Jack

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Admin
David M. Katz wrote:
db105 wrote:

But seriously, I don't want Perry to feel he needs to be paddled for asking me for help.

Agreed. I will tell him no paddling required.

I thought about not responding to this, and I do understand the feeling behind it. However, the scenario does state that Perry is asking to be paddled for disobeying his dad and for not being honest with you (insofar as he didn't tell you his dad had already forbidden it).


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5 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:16 pm

db105

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Trailboss
Jack wrote:However, the scenario does state that Perry is asking to be paddled for disobeying his dad and for not being honest with you (insofar as he didn't tell you his dad had already forbidden it).

I understand that. However, as a punishment I feel it's a bit empty when I actually intend to continue helping him with the party even after knowing all this.

I don't know. It's just that I'm not sure where this falls on the scale from real punishment to just joking around.

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6 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:17 pm

AFinch

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Sherrif
He's only taking advantage of me if I think he's taking advantage of me. The scenario clearly says I'm thrilled to be able to do it, and that he's one of my favorite kids.

His dad is another story. He did directly disobey. But I think it was hardly the crime of the century, and I don't think it deserves any punishment. I'm going to tell him so. If it ends up being a "I do it or his dad will" situation, I guess I'll oblige, but more like 2 with Black than anything resembling actual punishment. Honestly, I think the poor kid needs hugs, even at 17, way more than he needs spanks.

7 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:45 pm

Adric

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Cowboy
So let's see.  He disobeyed Dad, and Dad is bound to find out because the party is going to go forward.  Dad will spank him if you don't, so I guess you had better do it.  He even wants it to sound convincing to Dad if he has to describe it, and that's why he pulled out the lexan and even recommended a complete set.

I know it's lexan, but I'll bet you can still swing it pretty lightly, and that way both you and he can tell a good story if that becomes necessary to save him from his father's ire.

How dishonest is that anyway?  He told you he disobeyed and you spanked him for it.  Will you really be required to quantify it on a scale of 1 to 10?  Sixteen licks with a lexan paddle sounds pretty convincing to me.

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8 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:20 pm

Kat

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Editor Extraordinaire
I'm inclined to agree with the others who don't think this merits a spanking. However, Perry's father might think differently, so I will make a phone call to talk it over with him. If he insists Perry deserves punishment, and Perry prefers I be the one to give it, I'll do it. However, I'll try very hard to talk his dad around.

Kat

9 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:26 am

ivor

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Marshall
I wonder if Perry is offering a 'thank you' for agreeing to host his party?

It seems to be what he consider he deserves, but in the circumstances I think I'd find it hard to apply a punishment paddling.

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10 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:16 am

Journey


Greenhorn
Is it strange that I find this to be rather sweet on Perry's part?

I'm of two minds about this scenario. I went back and read about the Tidwells after reading Jack's post, and I was reminded about all the responsibilities Perry usually has at home as the eldest of six (?) kids. I also reread the parts about his mom's tough pregnancies and miscarriages and about the hard time Perry had during these times.

Considering I like Perry a lot, I'd want to throw him a party just for the heck of it, to be honest.

So I don't think he's taking advantage of me at all. However, it's true that he did disobey his dad and was a tiny bit dishonest. If he's sure to get a whupping from his dad if I don't do it, maybe it would be kinder to give him a whack or two for posterity's sake.

I do have a question though, and apologies in advance if my terrible cold is limiting my comprehension skills. Perry said his dad promised he wouldn't "whup him" if you had already done so. But you wouldn't have a reason to whup him at all unless he did go and ask you about hosting the party. Does that mean his dad knew that Perry was going to ask anyway?

11 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:53 am

db105

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Trailboss
Journey wrote: Perry said his dad promised he wouldn't "whup him" if you had already done so. But you wouldn't have a reason to whup him at all unless he did go and ask you about hosting the party. Does that mean his dad knew that Perry was going to ask anyway?

Yes, I also noticed that. My best guess is that it was a general statement previously made by Perry's dad, not referred to this particular situation: his dad just wouldn't punish him again for something he has already been punished for at Jack's.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Danny

12 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:05 am

MemoryMan

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Sherrif
Perry's dad said NO.

Perry disobeyed and he knows he's due a whupping from somebody

Now he's getting the party he wants he's prepared (even wants?) to pay for it.

He has a good idea of your proclivities; he's selected the paddle and indicated its even worth getting a full set fom you.

Its not really punishment - its payment

How hard is your choice but this time you really should be able to enjoy it.

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13 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:54 am

kalico

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Sherrif
I'm dittoing Kat....




Hugs kal

14 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:32 am

Adric

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Cowboy
MM's perspective on what's happening sounds very convincing to me. Twisted Evil

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15 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:07 pm

David M. Katz

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Marshall
Adric wrote:MM's perspective on what's happening sounds very convincing to me. Twisted Evil

Yeah, I'm changing out blue books mid-exam too.


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16 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:19 pm

Jack

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Admin
Journey wrote:Is it strange that I find this to be rather sweet on Perry's part?

Not at all. It's not the way I would have described it, but I think it fits well. I think he found himself in a very difficult situation, then decided to do what he wanted, and (as MM put it) 'pay for it.'

The one thing I should have put into the scenario and didn't was that Perry did seem a bit nervous or anxious as we were getting the initial discussion handled, then he got involved in the planning and everything. Then, when he realized we were through with the planning, he became very pensive.

Journey wrote:I'm of two minds about this scenario. I went back and read about the Tidwells after reading Jack's post, and I was reminded about all the responsibilities Perry usually has at home as the eldest of six (?) kids. I also reread the parts about his mom's tough pregnancies and miscarriages and about the hard time Perry had during these times.

I believe the actual total is 10. There is another boy and FIVE girls who just don't come around here (except for the tribal party at Christmas), so I never really mention them.

db105 wrote:
Journey wrote: Perry said his dad promised he wouldn't "whup him" if you had already done so. But you wouldn't have a reason to whup him at all unless he did go and ask you about hosting the party. Does that mean his dad knew that Perry was going to ask anyway?

Yes, I also noticed that. My best guess is that it was a general statement previously made by Perry's dad, not referred to this particular situation: his dad just wouldn't punish him again for something he has already been punished for at Jack's.

That's exactly correct. If you look at the thread on my newest story - Seven on Safari - you'll notice that DB asked about Jake getting extra punishment, after his dad walked in on his spanking. I indicated there that I normally refuse to apply CP unless it's understood that I will spank as long and hard as I think is required, thus adding more would be unfair, if not actually abusive.

Going back to another incident, I was asked about parents being called into BCA for serious discipline problems. Like with a few other families, I have permission to act as 'duty daddy' for the Tidwell boys. Chris (Daddy) Tidwell used to 'reinforce' lessons given at school pretty often. He and I talked about that, and I explained that if he was going to trust me to supervise his kids, he was going to have to trust me to decide if they'd been punished enough. However, with my permission agreement, he does sometimes require them to write sentences or letters of thanks/apology as the situation suggests.




db105 wrote:Being human, I guess I could be persuaded. Twisted Evil

Yeah, this one was pretty hard. I seriously considered taking the paddle, telling him that, since this was for his birthday, it would be 17, not 16, then having him bare himself and assume the position. At that point, I would have given a birthday paddling - enough to sting, but not much more than that.

There was one major problem, though - his dad.

If it had been just me, I might well have done that. I can easily imagine Perry laughing as much as he ouched. The one thing he missed in this great concept of his was, even if his dad took my word that he'd been spanked enough, Dad still could have simply forbidden him to come over here. While I have the right to treat Perry as one of my own kids when he's here, if he's not here, I have no legal recourse.

As blase as Perry was about the idea of the paddling, I still had him pretty close to bawling. No, I didn't paddle him - that was from the lecture. I didn't yell at him or question his decision. I simply let him know how disappointed I was that he didn't trust me. He insisted he did, but I explained that, if he'd trusted me, he would have come to me, explained the situation, and asked what we could do. Instead, he manipulated and deceived me.

He was crying hard by the time we reached that point.

I forgave him, and even admitted I understood, but I had to hold him a few minutes so he could call down.

Then I told him we were calling his dad, and that nearly started him up again.

Let me say that I've known Perry for years, and he's not normally this emotional. I think he's just under a lot of stress from everything that's been happening in his family for a while now.

I'm going to skip a lot of the conversation that occurred. It really boiled down to me telling him I was very upset with him. I pointed out that he has no trouble asking me to care for his kids, or discipline them, and that I have cared for them through illness, sadness, and bad news. Then, when it comes to something good and fun, he wants to cut me out.

Of course, he was trying to explain that's not how it is, and that he didn't want to take advantage of me. I reminded him that I'm more than 15 years older than him, and I'm perfectly capable of protecting myself - especially from a teenager wanting a pool party. He was trying to backpedal at that point, and i started quoting Bible versus on charity and love, and it sealed the deal.

I did recuse myself from the decision of what to do about his disobedience, and I never mentioned the way he approached me on the issue. I think he could have gotten away with it, except he started feeling bad about things. He and his dad have fought about stuff a lot the past... six or seven months, and Perry has been right on number of the issues. This time he was wrong, and that really bothered him. He finally admitted to his dad what had really happened. The two of them talked it over (his dad called me - probably wanting to avoid another tongue lashing), and Perry took a relatively mild session with the belt (8 on his boxers), then wrote lines (while sitting in a cushionless chair right after the strapping).

And yes - he still gets the party. And he thinks he knows the plans, but I still have decorations, cakes, and ice cream to handle.


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17 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:30 pm

db105

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Trailboss
I like the resolution. Yes, talking about it with all parties sounds right.

I particularly enjoyed this: Very Happy

Jack wrote:It really boiled down to me telling him I was very upset with him.  I pointed out that he has no trouble asking me to care for his kids, or discipline them, and that I have cared for them through illness, sadness, and bad news.  Then, when it comes to something good and fun, he wants to cut me out.

Of course, he was trying to explain that's not how it is, and that he didn't want to take advantage of me.  I reminded him that I'm more than 15 years older than him, and I'm perfectly capable of protecting myself - especially from a teenager wanting a pool party.  He was trying to backpedal at that point, and i started quoting Bible versus on charity and love, and it sealed the deal.

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18 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:28 pm

kalico

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Sherrif
Right Db.... I personally love that end part
LOL....

Happy it all worked out in the end even though I don't think he should have gotten anything other than maybe your idea of birthday spanks...


Hugs kal

19 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:34 pm

Jack

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Admin
kalico wrote:Right Db.... I personally love that end part
LOL....

... I don't think he should have gotten anything other than maybe your idea of birthday spanks...

Kal, I basically agree with you, but he did disobey his dad and he was dishonest with me (at least in getting what he wanted before admitting the truth). Considering that his dad was pretty much wrong in this case, I think it should have been dismissed. Considering the way he's been raised, i can see why it wasn't.


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20 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:38 pm

StevieWeeks

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Trailboss
Jack wrote:Considering that his dad was pretty much wrong in this case, I think it should have been dismissed.

Isn't it rather obvious that Perry's father is jealous of you and all?

Stevie.

21 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:45 pm

Adric

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Cowboy
I'm having trouble figuring out exactly what Perry should have done (assuming that he shouldn't have done what he did).  Was there a way that he could obey his Dad and still get the party?  (Maybe he could have told a friend that he would like to ask for the party but he couldn't because Dad wouldn't permit it, and then count on the friend to relay the request.)

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22 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:09 pm

Jack

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Admin
StevieWeeks wrote:Isn't it rather obvious that Perry's father is jealous of you and all?

I think there is a definite chance of that, Stevie. He has a great relationship with his kids, though things have been a bit strained with Perry lately. On the other hand, I do think the fact that I'm much better off than their family might bother him a bit. On the third hand, he and I do mostly get along pretty well.

Adric wrote:I'm having trouble figuring out exactly what Perry should have done (assuming that he shouldn't have done what he did).  Was there a way that he could obey his Dad and still get the party?

I have given thought to that. As I understand it, he was instructed not to ask me if he could have a birthday/pool party over here. If that's actually and exactly what he was told, he could simply have told me that and asked me to talk to his dad. That might still have caused trouble with Chris, but I think he would have technically been more in the clear.


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23 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:38 pm

Adric

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Cowboy
Jack wrote:... he could simply have told me that and asked me to talk to his dad. ... 

So let's see if I can say that right ...

Perry:  "Uh, Jack?  Dad told me not to ask you if I could have a birthday/pool party over at your house.  So I'm not asking.  Do you think you could talk to Dad and convince him to let me ask?"

It sounds just a bit strange.

Or here's another, stranger, version:  Jack, if I were to ask you if I could have a birthday/pool party at your house, would you say yes?  (That's subjunctive, so it's hypothetical, and therefore he didn't ask.)

How does sophistry go over with Chris?

(A sophism is a specious argument for displaying ingenuity in reasoning or for deceiving someone. A sophist is a person who reasons with clever but fallacious and deceptive arguments.)

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24 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:43 am

Jack

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Admin
I saw it as more, "Uncle Jack? Dad told me that I couldn't ask you to have my birthday party over here at your pool, because he says we're taking advantage of you. Are we?"

But yes, there are sometimes when you're in a tight situation, and there really isn't a great choice any way you go.


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25 Re: 10 April 2017 - A Pretty Good Web on Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:51 am

Journey


Greenhorn
That solution might have crossed Perry's mind. However, considering how he was raised, he might have supposed that asking for the party in an underhanded (or sneakier) way would be even more dishonest than what he decided to do (asking out right and then admitting his disobedience afterwards).

Glad everything worked out for Perry (save for the sore backside!).

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