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BOTD Extra (23 May 2017): Look at What the Dad Dragged In

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Jack

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Admin
It's 12:30 AM - about 90 minutes or two hours past your regular bedtime. As a matter of fact, you actually were in bed when your phone started ringing. You managed to flail around enough to find it before it went to voice mail, and whatever came out of your mouth convinced the person on the other end that you were, contrary to how you felt, an intelligent human being.

"Is this (you)?"

"Yeah."

"This is Officer Johnson with Private Security Patrols. We provide security for Bransom Christian Academy."

'(Expletive deleted)', you think to yourself.

"Are you the father of John Diego?"

You consider the denying the 19-year old you adopted a few years ago, who is now a senior at that school, but figure they probably have his idea anyway.

"Yes, I am," you finally, rather reluctantly reveal.

"He was apprehended trying to break into the school. The principal is on his way here, but he's said that we can release John to you, if you'll come pick him up."

You suggest that, since he's actually 19 and was able to get there on his own, maybe he could come home on his own.

"No, sir. As a student here, I have to release him to a parent or guardian, or turn him over to the police."

"Give me time to get dressed. Maybe twenty minutes."

You're out the door in five when your phone rings. It's one of your oldest friends - Tina. She just received a call almost identical to yours. Tina is a single parent, and you are actually a guardian for her son, when she's not available. Security already said they could release her son to you, if you're willing to get him and just take him home with you.

"Treat him like one of yours," she informs you. "I'm too pissed off to deal with him."

'Yeah', you think. 'Like I'm ecstatic about all this.'

Still, you agree to get the boy.

When you arrive, you don't see John's car, but you do see lined up near the officer, being lectured by the principal of the school...


John (19), Gordy (17 - summer birthday), Perry (17 - graduating early) and Will (18).
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Next to the principal, you see Will's Dad. As you pull up and park, you notice another car pulling in behind you - Perry's Dad. The principal breaks away from what sounds like a really inspired tongue lashing of the boys to talk to you. The boys were caught trying to enter a class room through a window. The window was to the room of a rather unpopular teacher. With them, they had a box of fake spiders of various types (Halloween decoration, pictures, rubber ones). For the record, said unpopular teacher is rather well known as an arachnophobe.

The principal releases the boys to you, but says standard punishment for something like this would be a suspension He'll have to talk to one of the trustees of the school before he can say anything definite. In the meantime, the boys aren't allowed in school in the morning, and he suggests you all bring them to school at 11am, which will give him time to get with the trustee and update you on the situation.

As he leaves you to the boys, the other fathers ask what you're going to do. You're not sure yet, but your standard response for a situation involving illegal activity would be a switch.

What do you do and when do you do it?


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AFinch

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Sherrif
I have to wonder if he's testing to see if he really IS part of the family after the conversation of a few days ago. He's going to find out that he is. I can't find any reason to give him (or any of the others) a pass on this matter. They were out after curfew, both my household one and a legal one, and they were caught red-handed trying to break into a window to pull a mean prank. All those things are illegal as well a deliberately disobedient, dangerous, and disrespectful.

It's late, and I'm pissed off. Which means their punishment will wait until morning. Since Tina has sent Gordy home with me as well, he and John will be sent to bed. After the other kids have left for school, but before the 11AM appointment with the principal, both boys are going to get a switching that will leave them happy to stand respectfully with red puffy eyes during the meeting with the principal. I'll make sure John knows that even though I've just lit him up, I'm still happy I adopted him, and that no matter what stupid thing he did, I still love him.

Adric

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Cowboy
AFinch wrote:I have to wonder if he's testing to see if he really IS part of the family after the conversation of a few days ago. ...  both boys are going to get a switching that will leave them happy to stand respectfully with red puffy eyes during the meeting with the principal.
I'm going along with Kier because he (and the other K's) always seem to have the right ideas about what to do, but I guess I missed something because I don't see "the conversation of a few days ago" in the scenario.  I also communicated my intentions to the fathers of the other two boys and I'm assuming that those two boys faced comparable consequences from their respective fathers when they got home.
**********
After reading subsequent posts and reminding myself of the rather severe CP group discipline party previously carried out at BCA (A Gambling Problem) for the seemingly more minor crime of pitching quarters, I changed my mind about doing any switching before the meeting at the school.

Instead I'll follow the new consensus and wait to find out what comes of the 11 a.m. meeting.  It may well be that the paddlings and other punishments they are very likely to receive at school will be more than enough to take care of the situation.  I'm uncomfortable with switching them anyway, and I really don't want to do it.



Last edited by Adric on Tue May 23, 2017 2:41 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Kat

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Editor Extraordinaire
This sounds like a puerile prank, which is a relief. I'd be a lot more concerned if the boys had been caught with spray paint or had worse intentions.

I want to talk to the other dads and see what they intend to do. I'd also prefer to get word on whether the boys will face suspension or a different punishment. If they're going to be suspended, then the switching Kier mentions sounds fair. If there is a chance they'll be paddled instead, then I need to moderate any corporal punishment they face at home.

Kat



Last edited by Kat on Tue May 23, 2017 8:23 am; edited 1 time in total

MemoryMan

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Sherrif
I've already delayed punishment overnight and whatever action I decide to take can wait until the picture becomes clearer after the 11am meeting.

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Y Lee Coyote

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Deputy
One in the morning when things are hot (transgressions, feeling and tempers) and especially when a school response pending is definitely not the time to take any action. Talking to hear the boys’ stories and expressing my disappointment etc is certainly going to happen.

Fireworks are tentatively scheduled for high noon.

Y.




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LLALVA

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Trailboss
Shocked
Rolling Eyes
Send them to bed.
Get some sleep. Sleep
Go to the meeting with the school and wait for their decision about suspension and punishment.
Talk with other parents
Add punishment as appropriate. (switching or a day in seclusion)

Rolling Eyes boys




Journey


Kid
AFinch wrote:I have to wonder if he's testing to see if he really IS part of the family after the conversation of a few days ago.  He's going to find out that he is.  I can't find any reason to give him (or any of the others) a pass on this matter.  They were out after curfew, both my household one and a legal one, and they were caught red-handed trying to break into a window to pull a mean prank.  All those things are illegal as well a deliberately disobedient, dangerous, and disrespectful.

It's late, and I'm pissed off.  Which means their punishment will wait until morning.  Since Tina has sent Gordy home with me as well, he and John will be sent to bed.   After the other kids have left for school, but before the 11AM appointment with the principal, both boys are going to get a switching that will leave them happy to stand respectfully with red puffy eyes during the meeting with the principal.  I'll make sure John knows that even though I've just lit him up, I'm still happy I adopted him, and that no matter what stupid thing he did, I still love him.

I agree with AFinch (Kier?) about the switching (or perhaps seclusion, whichever). However, I AM a bit worried about switching him if there's a chance that the boys are facing a paddling instead of/along with the anticipated suspension. So perhaps the switching can wait until we get home from the appointment with the principal? After all, there's little I can do if the school decides to paddle him AFTER I switch him. Thus, I can control the situation better once we get a definite punishment from the school. But, yes, I will definitely remind John of how much I love him. Smile

I'm no expert but I don't know if this was a testing thing though. It sounds to me like it's just a poorly plotted senior prank as a last hurrah before graduation. (I say "poorly plotted" because they didn't even take the security guys into consideration?? Rookie mistake. Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy These aren't natural connivers at all. Just a bunch of good guys, pulling a reckless joke before going on their separate collegiate paths.) Young adult literature and TV shows tell me that those are just usuallly concocted by groups of snickering teenagers.

I might be betraying the fact that I come from a family of teachers and school admin here, but does this affect graduation in any way? Back in high school, kids who messed up this close to graduation didn't get to march in the ceremony (but still graduate). Hope that's not the case for these boys!

I'm slightly worried for Perry, who's one of my favorite non-Jack kids. His dad could not have been at all happy.

On a side note, how did John manage to slip past the alarm against sneaking out that you've mentioned before? Are these teenagers wising up to Dad's tricks or does that alarm no longer exist? (If my memory is faulty and if that alarm is in fact only a figment of my imagination, then I apologize!)

Jack

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Admin
I'm not going to give anything yet (and am arguing with myself about to write this up as a full story or just do the quick response thing a BOTD normally gets. I will, however, answer a few questions and respond to a few comments.

Adric wrote: the rather severe CP group discipline party previously carried out at BCA (A Gambling Problem) for the seemingly more minor crime of pitching quarters,

That paddling was far from easy, but I don't consider it severe. Certainly none of the boys were crying harder than they would have been from one of my spankings. Part of that was probably because their friends were around, and I'm sure their butts were sore and burning, but I would hardly call it severe, unless you consider all discipline around here to be worse than severe. Remember the force of the swats counts for a lot.

And remember, the paddling was for deliberately violating a rule, at a Christian school, that was there to respect people's religious believes. I've known kids paddled much harder at public schools for less reason.

Journey wrote:I agree with AFinch (Kier?) about the switching (or perhaps seclusion, whichever).

Yes, Kier and AFinch are the same person. My fault, because we used to have a very active member named Kean, which I thought might be too close.

Journey wrote:I'm no expert but I don't know if this was a testing thing though. It sounds to me like it's just a poorly plotted senior prank as a last hurrah before graduation. (I say "poorly plotted" because they didn't even take the security guys into consideration?? Rookie mistake. Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy

I don't know if it was testing or not, and I don't know how long they had it planned, but I will give you that they don't have security there during the day. I guess they should have thought about them having it at night, but I hadn't.

Journey wrote:I'm slightly worried for Perry, who's one of my favorite non-Jack kids. His dad could not have been at all happy.

None of us were at all happy, but Chris loves Perry very much. He may be more strict that I am, but he really does try to be fair.

Journey wrote:On a side note, how did John manage to slip past the alarm against sneaking out that you've mentioned before? Are these teenagers wising up to Dad's tricks or does that alarm no longer exist? (If my memory is faulty and if that alarm is in fact only a figment of my imagination, then I apologize!)

Noah had the Three Musketeers in the game room last night, so the alarm hadn't been set.


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kalico

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Sherrif
I'm in line with kier but depending on if I cool off and if I get any kind of tude them I'm more inclined to go MM's route and wait till after the meeting....

they are will be getting the switch for sure as that is the weapon of choice for these illegal things...


hugs kal


P.S. AWW HUGS BOYS
even though I see it as a prank it was still illegal and wrong....

David M. Katz

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Marshall
I agree with sending everyone to bed and then waiting to see what the school has planned before punishing. If the school does a good job of behind warming then I might consider a non-corporal consequence.

Question: school year is near the end. How would a suspension work and would it impact final exams?


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Jack

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David M. Katz wrote:Question:  school year is near the end.  How would a suspension work and would it impact final exams?

As a private school, BCA probably has more leeway in homework (I've always considered the idea of not giving credit for work done and turned in to be stupid, since it's the exact opposite of what a school is supposed to do, just for the record). Finals are next week at BCA (Tu-Th/W-Fri at BHS), so the classes are torn between finishing up for the year and already starting to review (remember, Monday is Memorial Day in the U.S., and there's no school). That means that, if the boys were suspended three days, and they missed a major test or weren't able to turn in a major assignment, it could have a significant effect on their final grades.

I'm still processing my feelings on all this, and I'm honestly still pretty tired after having to deal with it. However, it's been 24-hours or so since I posted this, so I am going to make a couple of announcements.

1) The boys received a one-day suspension, which included the half they'd already missed awaiting the meeting. They are being allowed to turn in any homework they missed. It has to be in by Friday, and failing to turn any of it in will result in a(nother) visit to Mr. P.

2) 20 hours of community service, which has to be completed before Thursday evening next week (1 June) or they won't be allowed to walk the stage.

3) Corporal Punishment.




Another question:

The school's response is to cover the 'on campus after hours', which is forbidden by school rules (except the playground area), and the attempted Breaking and Entering (or illegal entry, if you believe they hadn't planned to break). That still leaves violation of curfew and the nature of the prank itself. Will you allow those (and any other issues you feel might have been involved) to be handled as part of the school's punishment, or will you deal with them separately?


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Adric

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Cowboy
Jack wrote:(I've always considered the idea of not giving credit for work done and turned in to be stupid, since it's the exact opposite of what a school is supposed to do, just for the record).

... Will you allow those (and any other issues you feel might have been involved) to be handled as part of the school's punishment, or will you deal with them separately?

I agree with what you said about not giving credit being stupid.  I have issues with suspension as well, but I won't go into that here.

The school's punishments for the illegal activity seem pretty thorough and reasonable.  At any other time I might be inclined to add additional punishment to cover the violations (curfew and prank) of my standards of behavior, but in this case, since it is nearly the end of the school year and they will be busy with their missed assignments and that 20 hours of community service right on up to graduation day, I believe I would let the school's punishments stand as sufficient.

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Kat

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Editor Extraordinaire
Corporal punishment + 20 hours of community service (and a short time to do it) seems a pretty hefty punishment. I'm not big on dividing one incident into multiple infractions, so I'd probably let the school's response suffice. In any case, I'd definitely forego using a switch in the circumstances.

Kat

kalico

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Sherrif
My answer still stands... they will be receiving punishment for the curfew and the nature of the crime.....

I think the school was fair ....



Hugs kal

db105

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Trailboss
I'm torn on this because, while breaking in is illegal, in their mind it was a childish prank rather than a crime. I don't feel comfortable treating it the same as breaking in to steal money, for example.

On the other hand, it's very bad judgment. Fortunately that's not the case here, but when you break in someone else's property they might press charges and the boys would be in very deep trouble.

I would add some CP if the school CP is not very harsh, but I wouldn't use the switch.

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Adric

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Cowboy
db105 wrote:I'm torn on this because, while breaking in is illegal, in their mind it was a childish prank rather than a crime. I don't feel comfortable treating it the same as breaking in to steal money, for example.
If I understood Jack correctly, the actual violation for which they were punished was something like "unauthorized presence on school property during non-school hours."  There was also the reported "attempt to break in with intent to enter" but no actual break-in since the attempt was unsuccessful.

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Jack

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Admin
Adric wrote:If I understood Jack correctly, the actual violation for which they were punished was something like "unauthorized presence on school property during non-school hours."  There was also the reported "attempt to break in with intent to enter" but no actual break-in since the attempt was unsuccessful.

Just for the record, in Texas, just the attempt to enter a building like this could still be considered a Class A misdemeanor, carrying up to a year in jail.




I recently posted a thread related to this called BOTDs, Stories, and Updates, asking for input about how I handle these situations (posting the BOTD Extras, then writing stories based on them). Many people seem to prefer the additional detail to be found in full stories, but they don't like having to wait a week or two for the story to appear. Therefore, while I do intend to write this up as a full story, I thought I'd share a bit of the fall out of this situation.


When I posted this Tuesday early morning, we were back from school, and I'd made sure John and Gordy were settled in, and then had tried to go back to sleep. I wasn't able to, so I posted this, then took a hot shower, and was finally able to get a nap.

About the time everyone (except John and Gordy) were leaving for school, I had a phone call from Chris Tidwell. Before we were through talking, he had a phone call from Scott Knight, and it went three way. After all the school kids had departed, Chris and Scott and Perry and Will were going to be joining us. I gave my college boys permission to use a credit card and suggested they go shopping for summer stuff and be gone until at least 10:45.

At this point, the plan was for a mass switching.

When everyone had arrived, there was a rather vicious tongue lashing, focusing on what could have happened, and the fact that a suspension could result in some of the boys losing their college acceptance. When all three dads felt their point was made, the boys were told to strip down, and we took them out so I could teach everyone to pick a switch.

At that point, we did decide that, while we were expecting suspension, if CP was an option, we should allow that, rather than precluding it because of welted rears.

The boys spent a miserable two hours writing letters of apology, then basically doing time out.

We were there for the meeting, and we learned the results I mentioned early in this thread...

Jack wrote:
1) The boys received a one-day suspension, which included the half they'd already missed awaiting the meeting. They are being allowed to turn in any homework they missed. It has to be in by Friday, and failing to turn any of it in will result in a(nother) visit to Mr. P.

2) 20 hours of community service, which has to be completed before Thursday evening next week (1 June) or they won't be allowed to walk the stage.

3) Corporal Punishment.

The parents had a private meeting with Mr. P, then the boys were called in. Tina did join us for the meeting.

Mr. P actually mentioned he was surprised we hadn't already applied CP. Chris and Will both allowed that they'd thought about whipping the boys when they first got home, but didn't want to wake anyone. I agreed that I'd originally planned to switch my pair, and that had changed to a mass switching, but we'd decided to delay it in case he wanted the honor.

He thanked us for out thoughtfulness, but didn't want to deny the boys the privilege of a mass switching, so he suggested delaying their paddling. We accepted. The boys were NOT happy.

The worst problem is that the boys have to finish their community service to walk at graduation, but they're also not allowed at the Senior Banquet until it's finished. That's this Saturday, and it's pretty much an impossible goal. They have been doing two hours each day after school, including returning to school Tuesday, after their suspension, and they'll be doing eight hours on Saturday.

By the way, we did give the boys a thorough switching Tuesday afternoon, and Chris and Scott are quick learners on that front.

What the Boys Don't Know:


In the private meeting, before the boys were called in, Mr. P told us about his conversation with the trustee, and what he was able to do. The trustee had started out demanding a three day suspension and a loss of all privileges the rest of the year. Maybe that was just a knee jerk suspension, but Mr. P was able to talk him down a lot.

He also planned things out with us a bit.

What the boys don't know is that, if they work hard at their community service, show real regret, and stay out of trouble, they're going to be called into the office at noon on Saturday. At least one of the parents (me), and probably both of the other dads, will be there, and his paddle is going to be out. At that point, lifting the paddle and reminding them of their sentence, Mr. P is going to suspend the rest of their sentence, though it will be still hanging over them the entire time they remain students at BCA (i.e. - four more days).


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db105

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Trailboss
So they are going to be able to attend the banquet. I'm glad, I think they were punished enough for their bad judgment. But their intention was so childish as opposed to criminal that I wouldn't have wished them more consequences.

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Adric

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Cowboy
I hope none of them fall into despair and give up on the effort to complete their sentences.

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Jack

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Admin
db105 wrote:So they are going to be able to attend the banquet. I'm glad, I think they were punished enough for their bad judgment. But their intention was so childish as opposed to criminal that I wouldn't have wished them more consequences.

Daniel, while I agree with  you about their intent, one important thing to remember is that all of them would be automatically tried as adults, if this had gone to the courts.  I haven't done enough research to be sure of what could happen, but I am sure that it could mess things up bad if it had happened.  I am so glad that BCA and Mr. p didn't feel that was required, that I think them getting the full punishment would have still been letting them off light.

And yes, they will be able to attend.

Adric wrote:I hope none of them fall into despair and give up on the effort to complete their sentences.

Chris, Scott, and I are working hard to keep them motivated, especially since they still need to finish it quickly, so they can study for finals and get their diploma with their class. On the other hand, I think it's been suggested that, if they do a great job and finish quickly, maybe Mr. P will take it easy with 'that scary damned paddle'.


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Adric

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Cowboy
Jack wrote:... one important thing to remember is that all of them would be automatically tried as adults, if this had gone to the courts.
If a case like this went to trial and I were on the jury (which I was, on several occasions, in North Texas) and I got to see the box of rubber spiders then that would be the end of that trial.  On the way out I would give the prosecutor a piece of my mind for wasting my time.

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jackson1


Wrangler
Jack wrote:
db105 wrote:So they are going to be able to attend the banquet. I'm glad, I think they were punished enough for their bad judgment. But their intention was so childish as opposed to criminal that I wouldn't have wished them more consequences.

Daniel, while I agree with  you about their intent, one important thing to remember is that all of them would be automatically tried as adults, if this had gone to the courts.  I haven't done enough research to be sure of what could happen, but I am sure that it could mess things up bad if it had happened.  I am so glad that BCA and Mr. p didn't feel that was required, that I think them getting the full punishment would have still been letting them off light.

And yes, they will be able to attend.

Adric wrote:I hope none of them fall into despair and give up on the effort to complete their sentences.

Chris, Scott, and I are working hard to keep them motivated, especially since they still need to finish it quickly, so they can study for finals and get their diploma with their class.  On the other hand, I think it's been suggested that, if they do a great job and finish quickly, maybe Mr. P will take it easy with 'that scary damned paddle'.


Does Mr P mean that if they do a good job and are stay motivated then he will announce on Saturday there will be no corporal punishment?

Jack

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Admin
jackson1 wrote:Does Mr P mean that if they do a good job and are stay motivated then he will announce on Saturday there will be no corporal punishment?

'Suspending the punishment' means that they will still be liable to suffer that punishment IF they get in further trouble. However, since next Monday is Memorial Day, that means they have to get through the Banquet, three days of finals, and graduation to avoid the rest of it.

What will be suspended will be the paddling and 10 hours of community service, which means they will be able to attend the banquet Saturday night.


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jackson1


Wrangler
Jack wrote:
jackson1 wrote:Does Mr P mean that if they do a good job and are stay motivated then he will announce on Saturday there will be no corporal punishment?

'Suspending the punishment' means that they will still be liable to suffer that punishment IF they get in further trouble.  However, since next Monday is Memorial Day, that means they have to get through the Banquet, three days of finals, and graduation to avoid the rest of it.

What will be suspended will be the paddling and 10 hours of community service, which means they will be able to attend the banquet Saturday night.


At this point are the boys still expecting to be paddled bare?

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