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BOTD 06-13-2017 Corporal Punishment is NOT allowed- A Jack Production

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Skater

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Bransom Postmaster
Corporal Punishment is NOT allowed
A Jack Production


These are your sons - 13-year old Mark and 12-year old Mike.

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Both of them have been Boy Scouts for a couple of years now.  They've worked with a couple of different Scout Leaders, but the main one with whom you've dealt is Jack, who is more of an organizer.  Mike and Mark are close to him because he has several kids their age, and they hang out at his house on a semi-regular basis.  That's what they did today, both for a Scout meeting and to hang with their buddies and use the pool.

Today, when you come to pick the boys up, Jack asks to talk to you.  He explains that they were organizing information to see what each boy needed to achieve to move up to the next rank.  His first point is that both of your boys seem pretty unorganized, and he asks if you can work with them on that, and offers a few suggestions, if you need them.  The second thing, which he seems a bit reluctant to mention, is that he's been having trouble with Mike being disruptive.  He usually calms down after being called down once, but that didn't work today - probably because so much of the meeting was one on one.  Mike had to be called down several times, and he was finally separated for a while, then received a lecture from Jack and the Troop Leader.  Jack doesn't want to complain too much, but, while Mike did calm down some after the lecture, he doesn't feel like they were taken especially seriously.

Mark and Mike are both pretty active (to the point of being borderline ADHD), and organization and self-control are problems both boys have had and still have occasionally.  Your normal response to misbehavior (not minor, but especially more serious or repeated offenses) is a bare bottom paddling.  You know Jack deals with his boys the same way, but you also know that Boy Scouts do not allow leaders to use CP.  Jack has permission to spank your sons, but he's very careful to keep 'father of friends' and 'Scout Leader' separate.  

Do you need to follow up what Jack discussed with you, and how vocal will each boy be about the discussion?


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db105

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Trailboss
Jack, as scout leader, can't spank the boys. But I, as their father, can. I'll tell Jack that I'd like to have a discussion with Mike and him about what happened, and that I will reinforce it at home if necessary.

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Adric

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Cowboy
I'm with Daniel on this one.

"Jack has permission to spank your sons, but he's very careful to keep 'father of friends' and 'Scout Leader' separate."

So right now being "Scout Leader" takes precedence over "father of friends" and that's why Jack doesn't spank them.  I'll talk to them and take care of their behavior problems.

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Kat

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Editor Extraordinaire
I'm concerned about punishing Mike when the scenario tells me he is borderline ADHD and that much of the meeting involved one-on-one time. I'm more inclined to punish for not taking the reprimands/lectures seriously than I am for the actual disruption. I'll talk to Mike myself. His fate will depend on his attitude. If I feel he still doesn't take the correction seriously or that he is pushing his limits because Scout leaders can't spank, he'll have a warm bottom.

Kat

AFinch

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Sherrif
I agree with everyone else.

squarecutter

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Sherrif
Question for Jack is, Were it not for observing the Scout leader code would he have spanked. I think as Kat says it is about the attitude. Coaches/scout leaders have not th authority of parents or teachers. They deserve respect a they are volunteering their time and I as the parent have to back them up if as it appear my sons are taking advantage, We will be having a talk
with Jack and later at home. The boys will apologise to Jack and will be on notice is that if the behaviour and attitude doesn't improve both tonight and in future sessions their bottoms will suffer

ivor

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Marshall
I like Kat's solution.

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Jack

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Admin
I think I would start by asking Jack if he has time to talk with me and the boys.

I would start by asking the boys what kind of problems Jack thinks they are having, and how they think I can help them. If they don't have any ideas, I'll ask Jack for suggestions (unless something has occurred to me while listening), so the boys and I are all on the same page with him as to what needs to get done.

I don't consider that a spanking offense. At worst, I would consider it a sign they're no longer as interested in Scouting. Given their background, though, I would imagine it's just something that they need a little help and support with. Because I don't consider it a spanking offense, I'm going to ask Mark to excuse us.

When it's just me, Mike, and Jack, I'll ask Mike to tell me what happened today. With Jack there, I think he'll be pretty honest. When that's done, I'll ask Jack to tell Mike why he feels the time out and lectures weren't taken very seriously. I'll ask Mike if he understands why his behavior isn't acceptable (taking time and attention from the other boys who do feel like doing their Scout work), and that I think his lack of respect for Jack is a spankable offense.

I think Mike has a chance to convince me (and Jack) that he understands and will try to avoid it. If he does, he can escape a spanking, but I'm also going to keep in mind that he's had several chances already, so he's going to have to work at it. Even if he does convince me, I'll let him know that he needs to settle down. Later, we'll discuss a couple of strategies to deal with this kind of situation (like just excusing himself for a few minutes, so he can burn energy without being disruptive).

But if he doesn't convince me, we'll be baring his bottom as soon as we get home.




Just for reference...

This is not a real life situation, but was based on a number of things.

Mark and Mike Weber, who were the inspiration for the names and pictures, are 13 and 14 now (Mike will be 15 this summer), but I have had similar problems to this with them in the past, and I'm pretty sure the two of them were paddled after a Scout meeting about 18 months ago, though I don't think I was ever able to confirm it (but their dad strongly hinted it was happening as soon as they got home).

There was another boy, one who is pretty much borderline ADHD, who was a bit disruptive in meetings Monday, but he seemed to take it seriously when he was given a 'time out'.

What did happen is that Jerry Reed's* oldest son was disobedient to me and disruptive of our meeting. I took him aside to talk to his Dad after the second warning. His dad asked if he had directly disobeyed me (letting the dogs out of their run), and he admitted he did. Jerry promised the kid a spanking for direct disobedience, but a chance to make it easier or harder until then.

* Jerry Reed is the head Scoutmaster for our troop. He's also the inspiration for the Jerry in Around the Block, a fact I've already mentioned in that story's discussion thread. The story itself is non-Bransom, because of all the changes I had to make for a good story, but the RL version is also in the discussion thread.


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MemoryMan

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Sherrif
Another KIMM alliance forming.

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Journey


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I think I'm inclined to agree with the KIMM alliance.

Zyngaru

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Greenhorn
I tend to agree with what has already been said.

One thing I would consider. Is Mike on medication for ADHD. Even though he is borderline he may be on Meds. He may have forgotten to take them that day. Since most days he stops with just one call down.

I say that because in the scenerio it was one on one time. Which means Mike was on his own to occupy his time and energy. That is not good for an ADHD kid.

I don't think Mike is being diliberately disruptive. Thus I do not see a spanking in his future.

I know a boy who is ADHD and even on his meds, he is more active than Mike. I asked the boy about it, and he told me that I do not want to see him without the meds, That he cannot control himself at all.

I am not for Medicating unless it is really necessary. But sometimes it is becessary for the boy to have a good life.

But yes, do all the other things. Talk and find out why Mike is having a hard time controlling himself.

Love the photo by the way. No doubt those boys are brothers.

Peter_Z

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Kid
Love the photo too.

Like to go with Kat in this case.

David M. Katz

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Marshall
Kat wrote:I'm concerned about punishing Mike when the scenario tells me he is borderline ADHD and that much of the meeting involved one-on-one time. I'm more inclined to punish for not taking the reprimands/lectures seriously than I am for the actual disruption. I'll talk to Mike myself. His fate will depend on his attitude. If I feel he still doesn't take the correction seriously or that he is pushing his limits because Scout leaders can't spank, he'll have a warm bottom.

Kat

I cannot add to this excellent analysis.


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Kid
I'm with Jack on this one, but I would like to add that if things don't change and that. Then it will become a spanking ofence, and I will spank them in front of Jack since he can't do it himself in this situation.

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