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17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck

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1 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:48 pm

Jack

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Admin
You used to be a teacher.  While you haven't done it full time in a long time, you do work with your kids and some of their friends to help them study and to teach them learning skills and techniques.  You also do an occasional seminar, and (very) occasionally substitute.

Recently, you were contacted by someone with a hard luck story.  His fifth grade son came down with mono this past year and was out of school for several weeks.  Within a week of finally being allowed to go back, he was in a car wreck with his mom, and he had to be hospitalized for a while, while his leg was repaired.  He's a smart kid, and he managed to keep up with a lot of the work, but the math just left him flummoxed.  He kept trying to catch up, but he couldn't and was finally told he'd have to take summer school.  That was horrible, because it really messed up a lot of plans for him and for the entire family.  There was another option, and they decided to find a tutor, who could either prepare him to take the standardized test to advance to the next grade, or who'd get him ready to start the next grade at a private school.

While you certainly hadn't asked to be listed as a tutor anywhere, it turns out you were, and they called you, because they shop at your comic book store and actually know you personally.  For those same reasons, you accepted him.



Quade - 11 years old and your new pupil.

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Besides the time Quade is going to be spending with you studying everyday, you arranged for him to hang out with your kids every weekday. Your house is pretty much the 'it house' for the local kids - you always have many kids around, plenty of food (even if it's real food, not junk) and a lot of things going on for them to do.

Quade has been having a great time at your house.

At least until today.

Normally, Quade spends the mornings outside with the other boys, has lunch, and spends some time in the pool. Then, about 1:00, as it approaches the heat of the day, he comes in to do school work with you. Today wasn't quite normal, because you had to run into the big city, in order to provide some paperwork and sign some papers for one of your older sons to start a special training camp next week. You'd prepared a test for Quade, so you could see how much he's improved in the last couple of weeks. You showed him where you left it, gave him instructions, and reminded him to start on it at 1 o'clock.

When you arrived home, about 1:30, Quade hadn't started it yet. It turns out the boys were playing pool volleyball. You assume he just lost track of time, so you decided not to make a big deal of it. You did tell him to get out, but he begged to finish this game. It was 'winner stays', so when his team won, he wanted to stay, but you were insistent with him. He tried to argue, but a couple of his friends warned him, and he grudgingly climbed out. A quick shower under the house, swim trunks hung to dry, and he came inside, pulling on basketball shorts and a tee to join you. You reminded him of what to do, told him to take his time, and that you needed to check on some things, but you'd be back, probably before he finished the test.

It took a little longer than you'd expected to finish your work, but it had only been about twenty-five minutes out of is one hour lesson. When you went back, the test was complete, but Quade wasn't there. You looked out back and, sure enough, he was back in the pool.

While his dad's a push-over, you know that his mom is pretty strict with him, and you have very specific permission to spank him. Is it time to use it, or for one more last chance?


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2 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:22 pm

Peter_Z

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Wrangler
Hm - some more chance?
Guess he is testing somehow the limits.
Maybe today it was extra difficult for him to find the discipline to do his learning. And then he got it his way each time.

Think he needs a clear sign that he got to far.
Therefore - out of pool - trunks down -
guess only a few swats will be needed to give his small round buttocks some warm up -
and before pulling on his basketball shorts again he will rub his glowing buttocks.

3 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:02 pm

Adric

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Cowboy
Is it possible he misunderstood your intentions and thought he was free again once he had finished the test?  Maybe it was just a simple misunderstanding.  Did he really know what he was supposed to do next after he had completed the test?

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Adric

4 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:14 pm

18Smacked

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Cowboy
I see the situation much as does Adric. While it is stated that the test took but 25 minutes out of what is typically a one hour study session, I don't know if it was ever stated to Quade that after he test had been completed, the remaining time would be used to continue other studies. Thus, I wonder if the boy was simply genuinely confused.

I think that the child needs to be questioned as to what he understood would happen once the test was completed, and if there was, in fact, confusion, perhaps this may have been my fault for not clarifying matters. On the other hand, if the child was aware of study plans after the test, then possibly some "firm discipline" is needed to get Quade's attention.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=18Smacked

5 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:15 pm

AFinch

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Sherrif
I agree with Adric and 18 Smacked. If after questioning, he knew he wasn't supposed to be back in the pool, but studying, he's in trouble. Otherwise, we'll clarify the situation verbally.

6 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:45 pm

Kat

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Editor Extraordinaire
I'm in agreement with others as well. This poor kid has had a sucky few months. Even if he didn't misunderstand, I can hardly blame him for wanting to be free during the summer. One hour may not seem a long time to an adult, but for an 11-year-old, it's an eternity -- especially when he wants to join some activity.

Kat

7 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:14 pm

handmade straps

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Wrangler
I agree if he knew he was still supposed to be studying then he needs to be spanked.
If it was an honest mistake. Then I would remind him that he is to work on his math from 1pm-2pm everyday even if part of that time is used for taking a test. Then remind him that if he is caught playing when he should be studying agin. That he will get paddled on his bare bottom.

8 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:53 am

ivor

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Marshall
The one thing we don't know is how well he did in the test.

It is said he completed it, but completion and successful completion are two different things in my book.

If he's completed it successfully in 25 minutes then in my book he's pretty much entitled to go back out; but if he's rushed through it and made lots of mistakes, that's a different matter.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Ivor+slipper

9 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:29 am

Jack

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Admin
I should know better than to write these things in a hurry and not re-read them.

I honestly believe the scenario implies this, but I should have made it plain.

The Scenario wrote: You reminded him of what to do, told him to take his time, and that you needed to check on some things, but you'd be back, probably before he finished the test.

In the original scenario, I should have been more specific that he knew I was going to be back so we could review the test, and he was also warned that I should return before he finished with the test, but that I might not.

Kat wrote:I'm in agreement with others as well. This poor kid has had a sucky few months. Even if he didn't misunderstand, I can hardly blame him for wanting to be free during the summer.

This is definitely a good point, but his 'sucky few months' were mostly over by March. It did mean he wasn't able to play soccer this spring, but it's not like this was the first week he was able to get around and play either.

Kat wrote:One hour may not seem a long time to an adult, but for an 11-year-old, it's an eternity -- especially when he wants to join some activity.

Sorry, but this just isn't true. Take a kid to the DMV to get his first license, and an hour seems like an eternity no matter how adult you are!

ivor wrote:The one thing we don't know is how well he did in the test.

It is said he completed it, but completion and successful completion are two different things in my book.

If he's completed it successfully in 25 minutes then in my book he's pretty much entitled to go back out; but if he's rushed through it and made lots of mistakes, that's a different matter.

Ivor makes a very good point on this. This was not done for a grade, but just to evaluate. For the record, he did okay - I think he should have spent more time on it, but that's true with a lot of kids. Would how he did on the test make a difference to anyway else - whether he'd done a good job or obviously rushed through it?




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10 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:34 am

squarecutter

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Sherrif
Quades only gettout as I see it is Adrics caveat and if true I would consider it,. But I will not offer it. If Quade thinks there is an excuse he will be allowed to offer it but I will not put the thought in his head. I am suspicious though that if I set a test designed to keep a boy at it for most of an hour, that behind on his work, he aced it in half the time. So the quality of Quades work will also be under scrutiny. Quade gets paddle if the work is beneath what I would expect or if he has no excuse for going back out early

11 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:05 am

db105

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Trailboss
It may have made sense to him... even if he knew you were going to return, since he was done and he had to wait anyway, why not wait inside the pool having fun?

I realize after his "forgetting" the test, this may be the last straw, but I would prefer the last straw to be something a bit more ill-intentioned.

I don't know, I'm on the edge. How clear were you that he was not to get in the pool again before you were back? Do you feel he disobeyed a direct instruction? If not I'll just have a talk with him about taking his work seriously and make it clear that he is on probation for a few days and will get a spanking if he doesn't.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Danny

12 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:12 am

handmade straps

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Wrangler
If did ok, but I think he would have done better on the test if he would have followed my instructions to take his time on the test. He is in trouble for not minding. Since he knew I would be back before his study hour was up, and decided to go back to the pool anyways. He is in trouble for not minding. He is going to get a delux and his bare fresh from the pool bottom for that extra sting, and he is not allowed in the pool for the rest of the day. He also has to redo his test, and take his time on it.

13 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:24 am

Jack

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Admin
squarecutter wrote:Quades only gettout  as I see it is Adrics caveat and if true I would consider it,. But I will not offer it. If Quade thinks there is an excuse he will be allowed to offer it but I will not put the thought in his head. I am suspicious though that if I set a test designed to keep a boy at it for most of an hour, that behind on his work, he aced it in half the time. So the quality of Quades work will also be under scrutiny. Quade gets paddle if the work is beneath what I would expect or if he has no excuse for going back out early

Not big deal, but I wanted to address this. The test was actually only designed to take about a half hour (maybe forty minutes - 20 questions, and most of them were solvable in the head or with simple math), so that he and I had time to discuss any mistakes he made.


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14 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:59 am

Journey


Kid
Jack wrote:

ivor wrote:The one thing we don't know is how well he did in the test.

It is said he completed it, but completion and successful completion are two different things in my book.

If he's completed it successfully in 25 minutes then in my book he's pretty much entitled to go back out; but if he's rushed through it and made lots of mistakes, that's a different matter.

Ivor makes a very good point on this.  This was not done for a grade, but just to evaluate.  For the record, he did okay - I think he should have spent more time on it, but that's true with a lot of kids.  Would how he did on the test make a difference to anyway else - whether he'd done a good job or obviously rushed through it?


I think this situation is typical kid-think. Unless he was explicitly told to wait for my return no matter what, he's not in trouble for going out to play. After all, he had followed my instructions - he had finished the exam. When he was done, he realized that I wasn't back yet, leaving him with nothing to do and thus, in his mind, free to go play until I come back. If I really want him to be there when I come back, I'll just make sure to verbally stress the fact that I want him to wait for my return next time.

He's only in trouble if he had obviously rushed through the exam in order to go play. If there are a lot of errors born out of carelessness and things like that, there will be consequences, although not of the spanking variety. I think I'll make him take the test again - seriously this time. I'll also assign him extra work.

He only gets spanked if he argues and doesn't immediately come back to look over the exam with me when I call him. After all, we had already dealt with that issue before the test.

15 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:18 pm

handmade straps

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Wrangler
Jack wrote:
squarecutter wrote:Quades only gettout  as I see it is Adrics caveat and if true I would consider it,. But I will not offer it. If Quade thinks there is an excuse he will be allowed to offer it but I will not put the thought in his head. I am suspicious though that if I set a test designed to keep a boy at it for most of an hour, that behind on his work, he aced it in half the time. So the quality of Quades work will also be under scrutiny. Quade gets paddle if the work is beneath what I would expect or if he has no excuse for going back out early

Not  big deal, but I wanted to address this.  The test was actually only designed to take about a half hour (maybe forty minutes - 20 questions, and most of them were solvable in the head or with simple math), so that he and I had time to discuss any mistakes he made.

Jack has now pointed out twice that Quade should have still been there when he got back, so I stand by my opinion that he should be spanked, and I'm having a hard time seeing how people are still thinking that Quade isn't in the wrong here. scratch

16 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:28 pm

Jack

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Admin
handmade straps wrote: I'm having a hard time seeing how people are still thinking that Quade isn't in the wrong here. scratch

I might be putting words in people's mouths here, but I don't really think that anyone believes Quade was right. I think the question most people are asking is 'did he do something deliberately wrong, or did he simply not understand.' After all, there is a lot of difference between, 'I'll be back', and 'wait for me until I get back.'


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17 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:32 pm

Adric

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Cowboy
Jack wrote:After all, there is a lot of difference between, 'I'll be back', and 'wait for me until I get back.'
And for me that is the key difference - the one that distinguishes disobedience from misunderstanding.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Adric

18 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:17 pm

David M. Katz

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Marshall
I think I chalk it up to kid think and a misunderstanding. It calls for a serious chat but no spanking this time.


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19 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:00 am

MemoryMan

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Sherrif
Poor Quade.  

He may be a young boy but he is also a client and I don't understand all the misplaced responsibility heaped on him.  His tutor was contracted to give him an hours one to one tuition each day.  On this particular day the session for whatever reason started late.

When it did start Quade was assigned a test whilst his tutor went swanning off to do something else and was not on hand (as contracted) to resume the one to one tutoring when he completed it, so he wandered off out of the room but stayed within easy call.

Quade is not deserving of punishment since the situation has arisen, to a large degree, by a lapse of the professionalism of his tutor.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=MemoryMan

20 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:03 am

ivor

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Marshall
MemoryMan wrote:Poor Quade.  

He may be a young boy but he is also a client and I don't understand all the misplaced responsibility heaped on him.  His tutor was contracted to give him an hours one to one tuition each day.  On this particular day the session for whatever reason started late.

When it did start Quade was assigned a test whilst his tutor went swanning off to do something else and was not on hand (as contracted) to resume the one to one tutoring when he completed it, so he wandered off out of the room but stayed within easy call.

Quade is not deserving of punishment since the situation has arisen, to a large degree, by a lapse of the professionalism of his tutor.

An interesting viewpoint MM and one I hadn't considered until you raised it. Does raise interesting questions about supervision of kids in the tutor's absence.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Ivor+slipper

21 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:10 am

db105

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Trailboss
MemoryMan wrote:
Quade is not deserving of punishment since the situation has arisen, to a large degree, by a lapse of the professionalism of his tutor.

The scenario doesn't make it completely clear whether Jack is actually being paid for his tutoring, but even if he is, I don't think it makes much difference here. Quade was staying at Jack's house. I'm pretty sure that Jack was not paid for his daycare services, and thus was doing the family a favor even if he was paid for the tutoring. Also, even if he got paid it was probably at the insistence of Quade's parents, so that they wouldn't feel they were taking too much advantage of Jack's generosity. After all, Jack has a lot responsibilities already and no financial need to tutor anyone. If he was doing this it was to do the family a favor. Also, Jack was clearly acting in loco parentis. He had permission to discipline Quade if necessary. He wasn't just the tutor.

Taking all that into account, I can't agree that this is Jack's fault and that he should never have had something else he needed to do at the time of the tutoring. Obviously if he can't tutor Quade because he has too much to do that would be one thing. But a one time temporal absence while Quade does a test is a different one. If Quade's parents are not satisfied they can obviously make alternative arrangements, but I don't think that's the case here.

Therefore, in this situation, if Quade disobeys and deserves a spanking I don't think there's anything wrong with Jack spanking him. I just don't think this is willful disobedience, just some kidthink and some being difficult, but it could be dealt with just with a talking to.

Of course, that's my impression reading the scenario. We just don't have all the information.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=Danny

22 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:20 am

Emlyn Morgan

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Trailboss
Ah, yes! I pushed my luck once. Cool 1963, I think it was. scratch

Anyway. I'm going to whack that boy!

23 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:33 pm

Jack

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Admin
db105 wrote:
MemoryMan wrote:
Quade is not deserving of punishment since the situation has arisen, to a large degree, by a lapse of the professionalism of his tutor.

The scenario doesn't make it completely clear whether Jack is actually being paid for his tutoring, but even if he is, I don't think it makes much difference here. Quade was staying at Jack's house. I'm pretty sure that Jack was not paid for his daycare services, and thus was doing the family a favor even if he was paid for the tutoring. Also, even if he got paid it was probably at the insistence of Quade's parents, so that they wouldn't feel they were taking too much advantage of Jack's generosity. After all, Jack has a lot responsibilities already and no financial need to tutor anyone. If he was doing this it was to do the family a favor. Also, Jack was clearly acting in loco parentis. He had permission to discipline Quade if necessary. He wasn't just the tutor.

Taking all that into account, I can't agree that this is Jack's fault and that he should never have had something else he needed to do at the time of the tutoring. Obviously if he can't tutor Quade because he has too much to do that would be one thing. But a one time temporal absence while Quade does a test is a different one. If Quade's parents are not satisfied they can obviously make alternative arrangements, but I don't think that's the case here.

Thanks, Daniel.

I think the scenario made it clear that I wasn't looking for a tutoring job, and that I did do this just as a personal favor.

Jack wrote:While you certainly hadn't asked to be listed as a tutor anywhere, it turns out you were, and they called you, because they shop at your comic book store and actually know you personally. For those same reasons, you accepted him.

While I am paid, everything else that goes with him being here all day is pretty much thrown in for free. Further, while this isn't mentioned in the scenario (I didn't think it would be relevant), there was an understanding that this was only one of many responsibilities.

I don't know how asking an 11-year old to sit down at a certain time and do his assigned work is misplaced responsibility, since in any tutoring circumstance, it would be his responsibility to show up on time. He already knew what he was supposed to do, and where the work was. Since the contract referred to isn't in evidence, I won't discuss it. I will, however, point out that - in a swimming pool - isn't particularly easy call, at least not insofar as returning to work is concerned.




I did spank Quade in this case. It really wasn't because of any one thing he did. But by the time he'd wondered off, he'd already lost track of time and not done as he was told (which I found perfectly understandable), and then, when given the more time he'd asked for, sought to change the bargain and argue about doing as he agreed. He wasn't rude or disrespectful about it, so I let it slide. Again. I saw the wondering off when told to wait for me as a third strike, a final straw.

Quade wasn't happy about that (not a big surprise), but he didn't disagree with my reasoning. He actually admitted I was being less strict than his mom, and he did NOT want to wait and ask her opinion.

If he had told me that he hadn't understood, I might have let is slide, but he pretty much admitted he just didn't want to wait. If that had been the only issue of the day with him, I still probably would have let it slide. Since it wasn't...

Since this was the first time I've spanked him, I 'only' used my hand. He cried some, but it was barely a 4 - maybe 4.2 or so (see the Stages of Crying thread). He didn't want to get up after, so I held him, we talked for a minute, then I made him go to the corner while I graded. That only took a couple of minutes, then he got dressed and came back.

For those who were conjecturing - he did mediocre on the test. That was okay, because, while a couple of them were sloppy errors, most of them were what I expected. I've made some practice sheets for him, and we're going to spend Monday doing exercises just designed to make him work on analyzing the problems and breaking down how to solve them.


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24 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:58 am

MemoryMan

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Sherrif
Poor Quade.

http://www.malespank.net/listAuthor.php?author=MemoryMan

25 Re: 17 June 2017 - Pushing His Luck on Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:51 am

Y Lee Coyote

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Deputy
It is well know that a professor who is ten minutes late is rare.  In fact he is in a class by himself.

It pretty unrealistic to expect an eleven-year-old just to hang waiting for my return when everyone else is playing and having fun.  He probably feels that he aced the test I set for him since he finished it so quickly.  He surely thought: “Back to my real job as a kid -- playing with the other guys.”

When I get back it is time to call Quade to revue the test and either repeat lessons or more on.

Y.

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