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3 July 2017 - Will He Take a Stand?

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1 3 July 2017 - Will He Take a Stand? on Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:45 pm

Jack

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You have three sons.  The oldest, Blake, will be 20 in a couple of months.  The younger two, Aidan and Cole, are 14 and 16.

A few years ago, you (mostly your spouse) had some trouble with your oldest son, who kind of ran away from home.  He stayed with the father of his best friends for a bit, while the three of you worked things out.  One of the problems you had was that neither you nor your spouse was especially consistent with the boys.  You all sat down together and came up with some rules and penalties that fit most situations.  For most misbehavior, you used a variation of time out - the boys had to sit in the dining room, in a chair where they couldn't see into other rooms, and he's not allowed to have his phone or a game with him, or do anything but sit (occasionally homework under certain situations).  The boys hate this, and it doesn't have to be used too often.

Repeat offenses, more serious offenses, or violating the time out results in corporal punishment, which is mostly used on your youngest these days, and not much for him.  As the boys get older, you use actual grounding for them, and you can't remember the last time you spanked Cole (though it was probably within the last year).

You just arrived home, and you find Cole...


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"What are you doing?"

"Shhhhh!" he says, suddenly nervous.

"Hi, honey.  What'd you say?" your spouse asks.

"I'm talking to Cole."

"He's supposed to be in time out!"

You take Cole into the living room where your spouse is.  He was told he couldn't use the car to go to his friends' today.  There were errands to run, but it was suggested that he might be dropped off later.  That wasn't good enough, and a lot of complaining resulted, which ended up with him being told he couldn't go at all. That just led to more complaining, and when he was told to quit griping or go to his room, he refused to do either. When it came time for errands, he threw a fit about not being allowed to go, and was told to stay home and do his chores. When your spouse arrived home, the chores weren't done, so he was given a time out.  A time out should last one minute for the boys age - sixteen minutes for Cole, but this one has been ongoing for nearly an hour now, because he won't take it seriously.

Do you convince him to take his seat at the table and stay, or will he prefer to stand before you're through with him?



Last edited by Jack on Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:06 am; edited 1 time in total


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2 Re: 3 July 2017 - Will He Take a Stand? on Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:13 pm

Zyngaru

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"You all sat down together and came up with some rules and penalties that fit most situations."

"Repeat offenses, more serious offenses, or violating the time out results in corporal punishment, which is mostly used on your youngest these days, and not much for him."

"A time out should last one minute for the boys age - sixteen minutes for Cole, but this one has been ongoing for nearly an hour now, because he won't take it seriously."

Seems cut and dry to me. It really doesn't matter why Cole is acting the way he is. Whether he thinks he is too old for the rules, or if he is just pushing the boundaries to see if they still exist. The fact is the rules were made jointly. The consequences were decided jointly.

Cole is obviously breaking the rules, so the consequences not only should but HAVE to come into play.

He gets the spanking. Even though he is 16, that doesn't change the facts. Give him the spanking.

3 Re: 3 July 2017 - Will He Take a Stand? on Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:02 pm

Kat

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He was told he couldn't go to his friends' house for complaining but he also got a timeout. "Timeout" is a weird sort of punishment for a teenager. I also think not being allowed to visit his friends should have been punishment enough. I don't want to undermine my spouse, but I can't help feeling things weren't handled well.

In any case, as "timeout" has been a dismal failure today, I'll give Cole a choice: he can either sit out his sixteen minutes or he can take three school style swats.

I think it's time for another discussion about punishments.

Kat

4 Re: 3 July 2017 - Will He Take a Stand? on Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:08 am

Jack

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Kat wrote:He was told he couldn't go to his friends' house for complaining but he also got a timeout.

Kat is right, not because of the spouse, but because I left out nearly half a paragraph.

The original post has now been edited.


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5 Re: 3 July 2017 - Will He Take a Stand? on Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:25 am

Kat

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Jack wrote:
Kat wrote:He was told he couldn't go to his friends' house for complaining but he also got a timeout.

Kat is right, not because of the spouse, but because I left out nearly half a paragraph.

The original post has now been edited.  

Okay, that seems much more reasonable. I think at this point, he loses his choices and gets the cp.

Kat

6 Re: 3 July 2017 - Will He Take a Stand? on Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:57 am

David M. Katz

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Marshall
He gets the spanking AND he still owes a 16 minute time out which he can serve standing up.


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7 Re: 3 July 2017 - Will He Take a Stand? on Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:03 pm

Peter_Z

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Wrangler
He has broken the rules - so he has to take the consequences.

His buttocks will glow for a while.

8 Re: 3 July 2017 - Will He Take a Stand? on Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:48 pm

db105

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Trailboss
It looks like the situation has escalated. Maybe it could have been handled better, or maybe Cole was being impossible, but at this point there is no alternative: he is getting paddled.

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9 Re: 3 July 2017 - Will He Take a Stand? on Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:12 am

Jack

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Yes, this is at least somewhat a RL situation.

Kat said that time out is kind of a weird punishment for a teenager, but it tends to work in this case (that is to say - the Cavanaugh Family). Part of the reason it works is that both Aidan and Cole are pretty hyper, if not actually ADHD, and Cole and Blake both have trouble remembering that they are the kids, and having to sit quietly with nothing to do is a way of making them submit. It seems to be enough, and when it isn't... there are plenty of other places to go.

Aidan hates doing his time outs, but he's also the best behaved of the boys. He gets in the same silly trouble as most other boys, but he's less defiant and more anxious to please than his big brothers. From what I understand, when Cole refuses to do his time outs, Carrie has been sending him to his room, and keeping his phone for a day or two. As David can tell you - that's close to a fate worse than death for today's teens.

In this case, Cole did get the belt. I think a lot of the reason for the belt was because Cole would just not quit pushing. Dub tells me the boy was trying to explain why his mom was wrong, and he ended up getting a couple of strokes over his pants. At that point, Dub just told him to sit down and do the time out, and Cole still wouldn't back down, so he got to drop his pants and take several more on his compression shorts. He was then told he could sit down and do the time out, or he could be taken to his room for a 'real session' with the belt. At that point, he sat down.

Later that evening, they were able to sit down and have a talk. Cole apologized, but he never could figure out why he'd been acting out so much. When I heard about it, I think I knew what the problem was. Cole had slept in that morning, while Aidan and Blake had gotten up and came over here. Cole doesn't have a car yet, and was probably upset to learn he couldn't use Mom's, and mad at himself. I know that, for me, it's much easier to handle being mad at other people than to just admit I screwed up and deal with it.


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10 Re: 3 July 2017 - Will He Take a Stand? on Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:19 am

db105

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Trailboss
I remember as a teenager that sometimes I got angry and argued without knowing exactly why. Hormones acting up, I guess.

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11 Re: 3 July 2017 - Will He Take a Stand? on Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:01 am

MemoryMan

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Sherrif
It would appear from the scenario that Blake's departure had sent his parents a wake up call.  Their  response was to get everybody together and set up a scheme of rules and set punishments.  There is no indication that they had taken an inward look at their own failings and looked for ways to promote harmony.  

They don't appear to have any cognition of the basic truth that although obedience and deference can be demanded and enforced, respect must be EARNED.  

At the ages the boys are at, without mutual respect, their "solution" is doomed to failure.

In my role as the prescriptive father depicted in this scenario I am about to give Cole a severe leathering, then he'll be required to serve his 'time out' sitting on a hard chair before regaining possession of his trousers.

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12 Re: 3 July 2017 - Will He Take a Stand? on Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:34 am

Jack

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MemoryMan wrote:It would appear from the scenario that Blake's departure had sent his parents a wake up call.  Their  response was to get everybody together and set up a scheme of rules and set punishments.  There is no indication that they had taken an inward look at their own failings and looked for ways to promote harmony.  

May I point out that there is also no indication that they didn't. However, there is the fact that the new scheme has basically worked for everyone for FIVE YEARS (well, just 'a few years' according to the actual scenario), which suggests that it did solve the problem, since 'today's' problem appears to be an anomaly, not a regular occurrence.


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13 Re: 3 July 2017 - Will He Take a Stand? on Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:49 pm

Adric

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Cowboy
I'm with Zyngaru and Dave.

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